Inherited Luger

Furballf16 · 09-28-2006, 08:42 PM

I recently inherited a 7.65 luger from my wife's side of the family. It was her great great grandfathers. I know absolutely nothing about guns, but would like any help anyone could give me in identifying it. I think it is a commercial model. The serail number is 8699 , looks like all the small parts have 99 stamped on them as well. On the bottom of the barrel is a capital N with a crown over it. Thesame symbol is on the left side of the receiver? Also under the serial number looks like a cursive o. Ithas GERMANY stamped on the front of the receiver and GESICHERT under the safety. On the top is a cursive DWM but no year marking. It has a magazine with a wooden bottom, with GERMANY stamped on that but no serial number on the magazine.

Trying to figure out what I have. Any help is appreciated.

Thanks Kent

Furballf16 · 09-29-2006, 01:07 AM

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/kent10.jpg
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/kent13.jpg
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/kent17.jpg
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/kent18.jpg

tried to add some photo's, I think it is a 1920 commercial model?

Ron Wood · 09-29-2006, 01:40 AM

You nailed it Kent, and a pretty nice looking one at that. It obviously has been very well cared for. Current nomenclature is "1920 Alphabet Commercial" because of the letter suffix on the serial number. This differentiates it from the 1920 Commercials that continue the 5-digit serial number without a letter.

Furballf16 · 09-29-2006, 05:43 AM

Ron,

Thanks, from everything my wife's fathertold me it has been in the family it's entire life. He thought it was older. I just had it at a gunsmith to check out and cleanup some and he was impressed, he thinks very few rounds have been shot through it. (my wife's dad said less than a 100). Would you consider this a shooter or a collector's item? I'm trying to figure out it's rough value to see about insuring it or not.

Thanks again,

Kent

John Sabato · 09-29-2006, 08:10 AM

I will have to let someone else estimate the value, because most commercial Lugers are not considered as collectible as the military models... I just don't observe that many sales of the commercials so any comment on value would be just a guess...

I am personally not of the opinion expressed in my first paragraph... I think the commercials are the cream of DWM's engineering and manufacturing expertise, and are far too often ignored... As far as commercial Lugers go, your is certainly pristine and would command top dollar in that category... I would certainly guess that the low end of the value of your gun would be at least $1000 based strictly on condition...

Let's see what those more knowledgeable on commercials have to say. Congrats on your windfall acquisition of this piece and welcome to the Lugerforum.

Lugerdoc · 09-29-2006, 10:19 AM

Kent, I recently sold a similar condition one locally for $750, but even these former "poor step childern" of the Luger fraternitiy as going up in value, but more difficult to sell due to the 7.65mm caliber. TH

Fritzer · 09-29-2006, 11:07 AM

Forum Members,

Any way to tell from the markings that this is a 7.65 mm caliber?

Is it the absence of the land measurement on the bottom of the barrel, or are all alphabet commercials assumed to be 7.65 mm?

The grips, finish, strawing, and mag bottom on this gun are in much better condition that the one at the retail shop that I looked at the other day.

Thanks,
Fritz.

Furballf16 · 09-29-2006, 11:28 AM

I'm pretty sure it is a 7.65 mm, I actually have some of the original DWM ammunition that came with it when purchased new. My father-in law has shot it last about 30 yrs ago.

John Sabato · 09-29-2006, 11:39 AM

If you have some of the original ammunition, the caliber determination is easy... even if the caliber is not on the headstamp of the cartridges...

If the cartridge is bottle-necked and the bullet is no where near the case head in size, then it is .30 caliber or 7.65mm, if the case is not a bottle-neck, then it is a 9mm.

A 9mm cartridge will NOT fit in a .30 caliber Luger chamber...

Fritzer · 09-29-2006, 11:44 AM

Hi Kent,

I did not mean to imply that your pistol was anything other than you stated in your posting.

I'm trying to build my luger knowledge, and compared the pictures of your very nice pistol - to one I handled recently in shop.

Your luger ammunition may be valuable on it's own. Pictures or descriptions of the head stamps could get some addition comments from guys with experience on vintage cartridges.

Great pistol.
Regards,
Fritz.

Furballf16 · 09-29-2006, 11:55 AM

I was not offended at all, just trying to provide info, when I get home I'll take a photo or 2 of the DWM ammo.

Thanks for all the great comments.

Kent

Ron Wood · 09-29-2006, 12:44 PM

Kent,
From your photos it appears that your Luger is in nearly mint condition. One dealer on the web has 4 1920 Commercials in about that condition. They currently are "on hold" (pending sale) for $1295 to $1595. Your Luger used to be considered less than collectable, but not anymore. Like all things, scarcity and demand have made them valuable, particularly in pristine condition. Congratulations on your inheritance.

Furballf16 · 09-29-2006, 12:57 PM

Ron,

Thanks, I will not shoot it then and keep it stored properly. Do you know of any material available that would kind of be like disassembly for idiots? I would like to take it apart to inspect/clean but am a little wary of that. I live in Phoenix, AZ

Thanks,

Kent

Ron Wood · 09-29-2006, 01:33 PM

Kent,
Go on down the main page to the section "Repairs, Restoration & Refinishing" and look for the topic "detail strip videos" by forum member "Shadow". He has posted a link to a series of really great instructional videos he has made that should provide you with all you need to inspect and clean your Luger. A word of caution...only disassemble the gun into its major parts: frame, barrel receiver and toggle train. This is all that is necessary to clean the piece. You may want to remove the grips to make sure there is no corrosion starting under the wood but pay close attention to the video and be very very careful, particularly with the left grip where it contacts the safety lever, as this is where a wrong move can break off the corner of the grip. This is called the "million dollar chip" because so many grips have been damaged this way thereby reducing the value of the Luger.
Good luck. My daughter lives in Tempe, so maybe sometime when I am visiting her I it would be neat to see your fine Luger first hand.

Furballf16 · 09-29-2006, 06:44 PM

A few more pictures including 2 pictures of the DWM rounds.

Thanks for any more info.

Kent
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/kent19.jpg
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/kent20.jpg
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/kent14.jpg
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/kent16.jpg

Tomathvl · 09-29-2006, 09:22 PM

Kent,
They don't get much nicer than that.
Tom

Dwight Gruber · 09-30-2006, 02:48 PM

Kent,

That is a really fine Luger. For research purposes, would it be possible to see a 3/4 diagonal view of the front of the frame? and also a good side view of the front sight band?

Thanks much.

--Dwight

Furballf16 · 09-30-2006, 05:07 PM

Dwight,

Here is your request, also had a question as to what the markings are on the inside of the receiver, looks like a W and something else, also under the sideplate looks like a little m or n? Let me know if you want anything else.

Kent
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/kent21.jpg
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/kent22.jpg
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/kent23.jpg
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/kent24.jpg
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/kent25.jpg

c3006 · 09-30-2006, 06:30 PM

I like commercials,and yours is about as nice as they come. Congrats
Clint

09-28-2006, 08:42 PM	#1
Furballf16 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: phoenix Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Inherited Luger I recently inherited a 7.65 luger from my wife's side of the family. It was her great great grandfathers. I know absolutely nothing about guns, but would like any help anyone could give me in identifying it. I think it is a commercial model. The serail number is 8699 , looks like all the small parts have 99 stamped on them as well. On the bottom of the barrel is a capital N with a crown over it. Thesame symbol is on the left side of the receiver? Also under the serial number looks like a cursive o. Ithas GERMANY stamped on the front of the receiver and GESICHERT under the safety. On the top is a cursive DWM but no year marking. It has a magazine with a wooden bottom, with GERMANY stamped on that but no serial number on the magazine. Trying to figure out what I have. Any help is appreciated. Thanks Kent

09-29-2006, 01:40 AM	#3
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,992 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	You nailed it Kent, and a pretty nice looking one at that. It obviously has been very well cared for. Current nomenclature is "1920 Alphabet Commercial" because of the letter suffix on the serial number. This differentiates it from the 1920 Commercials that continue the 5-digit serial number without a letter. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-29-2006, 08:10 AM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,152 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I will have to let someone else estimate the value, because most commercial Lugers are not considered as collectible as the military models... I just don't observe that many sales of the commercials so any comment on value would be just a guess... I am personally not of the opinion expressed in my first paragraph... I think the commercials are the cream of DWM's engineering and manufacturing expertise, and are far too often ignored... As far as commercial Lugers go, your is certainly pristine and would command top dollar in that category... I would certainly guess that the low end of the value of your gun would be at least $1000 based strictly on condition... Let's see what those more knowledgeable on commercials have to say. Congrats on your windfall acquisition of this piece and welcome to the Lugerforum. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-29-2006, 10:19 AM	#6
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Kent, I recently sold a similar condition one locally for $750, but even these former "poor step childern" of the Luger fraternitiy as going up in value, but more difficult to sell due to the 7.65mm caliber. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

09-29-2006, 11:39 AM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,152 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	If you have some of the original ammunition, the caliber determination is easy... even if the caliber is not on the headstamp of the cartridges... If the cartridge is bottle-necked and the bullet is no where near the case head in size, then it is .30 caliber or 7.65mm, if the case is not a bottle-neck, then it is a 9mm. A 9mm cartridge will NOT fit in a .30 caliber Luger chamber... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-29-2006, 01:07 AM	#2
Furballf16 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: phoenix Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/kent10.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/kent13.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/kent17.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/kent18.jpg tried to add some photo's, I think it is a 1920 commercial model?

09-29-2006, 05:43 AM	#4
Furballf16 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: phoenix Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ron, Thanks, from everything my wife's fathertold me it has been in the family it's entire life. He thought it was older. I just had it at a gunsmith to check out and cleanup some and he was impressed, he thinks very few rounds have been shot through it. (my wife's dad said less than a 100). Would you consider this a shooter or a collector's item? I'm trying to figure out it's rough value to see about insuring it or not. Thanks again, Kent

09-29-2006, 11:07 AM	#7
Fritzer User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 134 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Forum Members, Any way to tell from the markings that this is a 7.65 mm caliber? Is it the absence of the land measurement on the bottom of the barrel, or are all alphabet commercials assumed to be 7.65 mm? The grips, finish, strawing, and mag bottom on this gun are in much better condition that the one at the retail shop that I looked at the other day. Thanks, Fritz.

09-29-2006, 11:28 AM	#8
Furballf16 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: phoenix Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I'm pretty sure it is a 7.65 mm, I actually have some of the original DWM ammunition that came with it when purchased new. My father-in law has shot it last about 30 yrs ago.

09-29-2006, 11:44 AM	#10
Fritzer User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 134 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Kent, I did not mean to imply that your pistol was anything other than you stated in your posting. I'm trying to build my luger knowledge, and compared the pictures of your very nice pistol - to one I handled recently in shop. Your luger ammunition may be valuable on it's own. Pictures or descriptions of the head stamps could get some addition comments from guys with experience on vintage cartridges. Great pistol. Regards, Fritz.

09-29-2006, 11:55 AM	#11
Furballf16 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: phoenix Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I was not offended at all, just trying to provide info, when I get home I'll take a photo or 2 of the DWM ammo. Thanks for all the great comments. Kent

09-29-2006, 12:44 PM	#12
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,992 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Kent, From your photos it appears that your Luger is in nearly mint condition. One dealer on the web has 4 1920 Commercials in about that condition. They currently are "on hold" (pending sale) for $1295 to $1595. Your Luger used to be considered less than collectable, but not anymore. Like all things, scarcity and demand have made them valuable, particularly in pristine condition. Congratulations on your inheritance. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-29-2006, 12:57 PM	#13
Furballf16 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: phoenix Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ron, Thanks, I will not shoot it then and keep it stored properly. Do you know of any material available that would kind of be like disassembly for idiots? I would like to take it apart to inspect/clean but am a little wary of that. I live in Phoenix, AZ Thanks, Kent

09-29-2006, 01:33 PM	#14
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,992 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Kent, Go on down the main page to the section "Repairs, Restoration & Refinishing" and look for the topic "detail strip videos" by forum member "Shadow". He has posted a link to a series of really great instructional videos he has made that should provide you with all you need to inspect and clean your Luger. A word of caution...only disassemble the gun into its major parts: frame, barrel receiver and toggle train. This is all that is necessary to clean the piece. You may want to remove the grips to make sure there is no corrosion starting under the wood but pay close attention to the video and be very very careful, particularly with the left grip where it contacts the safety lever, as this is where a wrong move can break off the corner of the grip. This is called the "million dollar chip" because so many grips have been damaged this way thereby reducing the value of the Luger. Good luck. My daughter lives in Tempe, so maybe sometime when I am visiting her I it would be neat to see your fine Luger first hand. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-29-2006, 06:44 PM	#15
Furballf16 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: phoenix Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	A few more pictures including 2 pictures of the DWM rounds. Thanks for any more info. Kent http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/kent19.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/kent20.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/kent14.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/kent16.jpg

09-29-2006, 09:22 PM	#16
Tomathvl User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Milan, IN Posts: 363 Thanks: 3 Thanked 48 Times in 19 Posts	Kent, They don't get much nicer than that. Tom

09-30-2006, 02:48 PM	#17
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	Kent, That is a really fine Luger. For research purposes, would it be possible to see a 3/4 diagonal view of the front of the frame? and also a good side view of the front sight band? Thanks much. --Dwight

09-30-2006, 05:07 PM	#18
Furballf16 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: phoenix Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Dwight, Here is your request, also had a question as to what the markings are on the inside of the receiver, looks like a W and something else, also under the sideplate looks like a little m or n? Let me know if you want anything else. Kent http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/kent21.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/kent22.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/kent23.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/kent24.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/kent25.jpg

09-30-2006, 06:30 PM	#19
c3006 User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: east tn Posts: 526 Thanks: 5 Thanked 12 Times in 5 Posts	I like commercials,and yours is about as nice as they come. Congrats Clint __________________ Men Accustomed unto thier arms and their liberties will never endure the yoke. James Harrington 1776