Grips are part of the pistol, methinks

[Michael Kasun]

Well, I finally purchased my 1st Luger. Itâ??s a 1940 Mauser 42 code in excellent condition. I couldnâ??t be happier except for one thing. The written description stated â??all matching pistol partsâ?�. What would you define as pistol parts? I thought all of the parts would qualify. However, in this case grips are not part of the pistol.

There are two of them and they are made of wood. They even are numbered. Each one has a number that does not match the other or the pistol.

My question is â??What does this do to the value?â?�. Non-matching magazines are expected but this? Do I have a real clean shooter now?

What would you pay for a Luger in excellent condition without the original grips? I paid $1,500. I guess I could always look for a pair of 81 numbered grips. My chances should be 1 in 100 of finding them. You can consider this an offer to buy 81 numbered grips in excellent condition.

The dealer had a 3 day return policy with right of return nullified if the pistol was fired. Itâ??s well past 3 days and Iâ??ve fired it (and it was fun to).

Thanks in advance for any input.

Michael

[Edward Tinker]

Michael, it is "nice" to get matching grips, but to me, grips of original timeframe is acceptable. I think the vast majority of collectors would like to have matching grips, but I think a lot of collectors do not consider that a non-matching item?

The ones now on the luger, are they numbered like a serial number or odd numbers? I had one that had no number, but were E/655 stamped and it was stamped very lightly.

Ed's 2 cents, welcome to the fraternity, you'll be lucky to stop at one...

[Luke]

Michael -

While I can't disagree with Ed, I feel that the seller should have informed you that the grips were strays before selling the gun as a "matching" Luger. While that description might be marginally correct, legally speaking, it is clear that his description led you to an improper conclusion. I would expect better of an honest dealer.

Luke

[Navy]

Michael,
I think you got a bad deal and I would not do business with this guy any more. In Luger parlance, at least in my 40+ years of speaking and hearing it, all matching is EVERYTHING excepting the magazine. Mags are assumed to be miss-matched and when they do match, a premium is in order. Grips, like any other piece part, are expected to match.

The only legit exception would be armorers field replacements which would be waffened or have a similar acceptance stamp but bear no SN.

My zwei pfennigs,
Tom A.

[policeluger]

Ed, "nice" is not the deal here, $1,500.00 for a "matched" 1940/42 is top dollar. Mike should have gotton what he paid for, not a mis-matched gun, and Mike will now learn the lesson the very hard way...there are bolsters/fakes and cheaters out there and Mike I am very sorry. This is not a fun thing anymore, every week there are these storys of buyers being taken by sellers who one are out for the buck....and how many more that we do not hear of. And there is the paying of return postage that buyers must bear, yet it was not the buyer who laid false clams...Mike do tell us, or by PM too me, who was the dealer.

[Bob in OH]

Oddly enough, I just sold a 1940 42 made luger that was matching except the grips + mag. I clearly disclosed the grips issue and sold the luger for about 600. Finish on the piece was great and the metal was unbonkered ...and matched to the pin.

At 1500... either I sold too low with high ethics or this other dealer sold way to high with low ethics ... or somewhere in the middle...

[Frank]

Michael, I agree with Tom A. I also think you should try to find a set of E/655 Armorers Grips as Ed suggested. They will cost a bit, but would put your Luger in a lot better light. Not as good as matching grips, but a bunch better than you have.

Of course, some Military Mausers didn't have numbered grips, unfortunately the 1940 Lugers did.

[Mike Fitz]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Frank:
<strong>Of course, some Military Mausers didn't have numbered grips, unfortunately the 1940 Lugers did.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Hi Frank, <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />
Off the top of your head could you advise which of the Third Reich Lugers should have numbered grips.

I know you told me my 1939 Code 42 was one that didn't.
Thanks,
Mike <img border="0" alt="[byebye]" title="" src="graemlins/wave.gif" />

[Edward Tinker]

I guess that I am "out of touch", I didn't realize that non-matching (not period grips), caused it to be mismatched? At least to these collectors here and I respect several who have posted (others I don't know well <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> )

Point is, I learn something new every day, not always what I want to hear, but I still appreciate the lessons gentlemen,

[lugerholsterrepair]

Michael, You was robbed! I agree with Tom and PoliceLuger...The grips should match to make it all matching and command such a premium price.

I just finished reading The Dutch Luger and again I cannot stress how important it is to read good books. The Forum is a wonderful tool to protect out interests and pocket books but quality publications alert us to many things all at once.

When we shell out this kind of money it is important to do our homework.

Frank has some good advice too about the armorers grips if you can find a good pair priced reasonably. What might make it more palatable is to sell the old pair when you find the armorers pair. Good luck! Jerry Burney

[G.W. Gill]

E-Mail the name of the dealer to those that requested his identity. He is most likely following this. He is a victimizer. (trickster, cheater, sharper, swindler)

[Frank]

Hi Mike, Okay off the top of my head. As I said in an earlier post K-Dates and G-Dates are a crap shoot. Some are numbered and some aren't. Next the 1936 Lugers are mostly NOT numbered. The 1939 Code 42 Lugers are mostly NOT numbered, but the 1939 S/42 Lugers ARE numbered. The rest should be numbered except the black bakelite, which are not numbered. This applies to Military Mausers. Hope this helps.

[Lugerdoc]

Mike, If the mismatched grip "numbers" that you mentioned are only single digits and are not alined to be read from left to right when grip is in it's normal position, these may just be an inspector's number, and you may indeed have correct unserialized grips. TH

[Mike Fitz]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Frank:
<strong>Hi Mike, Okay off the top of my head. As I said in an earlier post K-Dates and G-Dates are a crap shoot. Some are numbered and some aren't. Next the 1936 Lugers are mostly NOT numbered. The 1939 Code 42 Lugers are mostly NOT numbered, but the 1939 S/42 Lugers ARE numbered. The rest should be numbered except the black bakelite, which are not numbered. This applies to Military Mausers. Hope this helps. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Hi Frank,
Definitely does and I thank you.
Unlike Michael, I guess I lucked out on my first & only (so far) Luger.
I think if I am serious about getting into collecting Lugers it's time to heed the advice posted here and on other parts of this forum and invest in some of the reference books out there.
I bought Clawsons book when I started collecting 1911A1's so it makes sense to do the same for lugers.
I want to concentrate on Third Reich era Lugers.
Any book recommendations?
Thanks,
Mike

[John Sabato]

Jan C. Still "Third Reich Lugers" should be your first purchase considering your focus.

[stevezz1]

Hi All,
I don't believe it.....
I have just posted this question on Jan's forum...!!

I only have eight Lugers in my collection at present and i have just looked at all my grips....
Not one of them has a WaA stamp and some have numbers, some do not, and none of them match the pistols........

I suppose grips and mags are the pieces that would most often be replaced. Mags being droped/lost and grips being broken, chiped or cracked.

Thanks to the members for the info.

Regards,

Steve.

[Edward Tinker]

Well, Steve, I imagine that Jan will find this funny, as I asked him about this at length this morning, as I too was under the impression that MANY grips simply are not marked with the serial number, and have not seen (or remember) manuals that require marking on DWM or Mauser grips?

Another thing I find interesting is the ole "armourer's / spare parts" as it is hard for me to believe that, that many spare parts were replaced. I wonder how many factory mistakes are attributed to armorer replacement parts (I know, let alone the many replaced bubba armorers).

Ed

[Michael Kasun]

Thanks Guys,

I think shame on the dealer for the misleading "matching PISTOL parts" and shame on me for not checking it out throughly when I received it. I named the dealer to those who asked. If anyone knows where I might find E/655 Armorers Grips or nice grips with "81" please let me know.

Also, the grips I do have both have two diget numbers. I guess I'll sell them if I find matching grips.

In the meantime I bought a nice pair of Repro grips from CMR International. They were cheap, fit perfectly, and have nice checkering. I finished them with Pilkington's Classic Red/Brown finish and they look beautiful. If the grips are incorrect I figure that they should be beautifully so.

Thanks again

Michael

[policeluger]

Well Michael, I will address some of this by PM. But I would try with the dealer too work something out, and at the least you know LF is here too help with your next Luger...and Ed I have always wondered if there where all these armouers out there running around replacing parts? Has anyone ever identified at least say a large tool/parts box that an armour would have? I really think too much has been places on "armourer's" than was documented. And how heavly was the gun used prior too needing a part replaced. While I seldom if ever shoot Lugers, and nothing from my collection/investment, there are many here that shoot thier Lugers, are thay replaceing parts as often as we are incountering "armour" replaced parts in the collecting field...how much was a Luger fired during even 4/5 year of war. Several months ago I got in my shop a 100% matching 1917 Erfurt, by the looks of the bore,and the way the gun was beat too death, it had been shot thousands of rounds...and mostly by the family that owned it, but none of the parts had ever been replaced??..long way around, I guess what I want too say is do you feel that the "armourer's replaced" is a way of hidding, or getting around a Luger that is not 100%. thanks

[Edward Tinker]

I have seen pictures of a tool kit, it appeared to have just about everything except for a frame and barrel! Seriously it contained a large amount of parts, and I imagine it is like e-bay, no one wants to say in an e-bay ad; oh I found this old Luger Holster at a yard sale for $2.00, how would you like to buy it for $150! No, they say, bought from the Vet or bought at an estate sale / auction... So, I bet that many parts are from parted out guns, from the thousands of parts left over and hauled away after each war and from repro parts. Plus the armorer kits that would have been in many hundreds of units.

Ed