New Boy w/questions

gearheadbill · 12-24-2009, 04:14 PM

Hello. My name is Bill Hulbert. I am 63, live in Washigton State, married w/kids/grandkids etc.. I am not a gun collector but own a number of firearms of many different stripes. I like guns and think everyone should own a gun or two and know how to operate them. Knowledgeable gun ownership a safer society makes.

The reason I have joined this particular forum is that I have in my possession what I believe is an American Eagle Luger. I will attach some very bad pictures as my good camera has gone on the fritz and my old one is, well...old.

This gun has been in my family perhaps from it's beginnings. I remember my dad showing me the gun when I was a boy. He was a bird hunter but not interested in anything but utilitarian shotguns. I don't know that he ever fired a pistol unless that was part of OCS training during WWII. On his death in 1986 I inherited several meaningful guns; this Luger is one, along w/a hi-grade Parker Bros double and an early Browning Superposed O/U. My grandfather was more of an appreciator of fine arms and these probably came from him. I know he purchased the Parker in Seattle in 1904. I was prompted recently by my brother-in-law, who is an avid gun collector, to get it out and do some research on it. I just remembered it as an old Luger, wrapped up in a silicone gun cloth, put into a hard case and hidden away in the back of the safe.

I have read some of the posts here on this forum and the Dwight Gruber database. Too much information! Overload. I am asking for help identifying my Luger and some understanding as to value etc.. If my description bears some adjusting I am certainly open to correction and being set straight. I just want to know the bottom line.

Let me start the description (pics attached) by saying that the gun is in AMAZING condition. The blueing is almost 100%, the straw is 100% as are the grips. I don't know enough to be able to tell but I don't think it's ever been fired. It has a serial number of 15146 w/various small pieces marked 146. Under the serial number on the front of the receiver it says GERMANY. The toggle is marked w/the DWM and the top of the barrel has an eagle/flag/6 pointed star engraving. That's all. No bugs (at least on the outside) or other markings. The safety is on safe when the lever is down, not up and it's not straw-colored behind when the safety is off. There are 2 magazines w/wood bumpers.

Any help or further questions are appreciated. Thank you Merry Christmas.

Thor · 12-24-2009, 05:13 PM

Outstanding!!

alvin · 12-24-2009, 05:16 PM

Made in 1901 ?

Ice · 12-24-2009, 05:31 PM

That is one gorgeous American Eagle. Congratulations on owning such a fine example of family history.

Charlie

Dwight Gruber · 12-24-2009, 05:37 PM

No finer example.

--Dwight

gearheadbill · 12-24-2009, 07:57 PM

Thanks for the kudos. Can anyone help me identify more exactly the year, make, model etc.. Also how does one establish value? I'm considering an insurance rider or other coverage for this gun and my parker double.

Conny · 12-24-2009, 08:19 PM

Gearhead--I can't give you a value but you should be able to get more than $10K easily. It is the most magnificent Original condition American Eagle I have ever seen. I never thought in my life I would see such an example.

Hell, if I had any decent amount of money I'd make you an offer. However, it was your Dad's and I honestly believe it should stay in your family forever.

Please remember---wipe off all fingerprints after touching. Wipe magazines as well. I'd try not to touch the straw peices much either. keep it in your silicone rag, inside a hard case and in your safe. I know this sounds strange but, try not to fondle it to much.

I would not only have it insured but would make sure it would be safe in your "fireproof" safe.

JIMHAY97 · 12-24-2009, 09:34 PM

Hi Gearhead - I'm no expert but one of the things I would do with this pistol is have a complete set of quality photo's made of it. When it comes to insurance you can't have too much evidence that you did indeed have a rare and valuable item. Also, as stated before by others, wipe the gun down after handling.

Jim
Buckley, Wa

alvin · 12-24-2009, 09:53 PM

Don't know the value of minty 1900. Say $5k? Just a rough guess. 1900 is rare, but not super rare, we still see them here and there, my feeling (could be wrong) is that condition alone won't push the price to $10k. But .... which super nice gun's price is rational? So it could go .....

Ron Wood · 12-24-2009, 10:24 PM

You have a beautiful and pretty magnificent early Luger. However, sharper photos taken in natural light without all the glare will be necessary to provide a more accurate assessment of the condition and value of your gun. Although it appears to be nearly pristine the images are a bit blurry. I think I detect a few tiny points of oxidation and/or wear. For high dollar guns every point off of 100% can mean the difference between $8000 and $5000. In order to be valued at $10,000 the gun would have to be essentially factory new in condition. I am not trying to be a wet blanket, but by the same token I wouldn't want you to have a false sense of worth.

Conny · 12-24-2009, 11:31 PM

My guesstimate was based on the 2 1900 AE Lugers on Simpsons. One reblued for $4.5K and another 90%, thinning straps, grips, etc...for $5K. These don't compare to what Gearhead owns although Ron is most likely correct that $10K may be an over estimate on my part. I do however think it would do very well at lets say, Christie's, Sotheby's, etc.

Edward Tinker · 12-25-2009, 12:11 AM

For something like this, I would want it looked at very closely, as it could be refinished (a chance is always there). And as others have said, that although very nice and original, the market can be fickle....

Ed

George Anderson · 12-25-2009, 10:39 AM

Look at the "GERMANY" stamp Ed. It has not been refinished.

Edward Tinker · 12-25-2009, 10:47 AM

I don't think its been refinished, but also hate to get a members hopes up that it might be a 10K luger by just looking at pictures...

gearheadbill · 12-25-2009, 11:05 AM

Thanks for all the input. Value issues aside....what is it exactly? 1900? 1906? short barrel? Long? Navy? Russian? I know it's not soem of these descriptors but I want particulars if possible. Also, where would one go, nationwide, for an evaluation/appraisal? Can the gun be shipped to someone for that purpose?

As a 100% neophyte these are important, to me at least, questions.

And yes, Mr. Wood, there are several (4-5) very small points of oxidation. Very good eye. Again I'm sorry for the poor photo quality. My "new but broken" camera does an excellent job w/macro closeups.....my old camera sucks at it.

Again, thanks to all. Merry Christmas!

Mike B · 12-25-2009, 12:34 PM

Merry Christmas to all,
You have a 1900 Commercial American Eagle 7.65mm with a 4 3/4" barrel. It was built in Germany for sales in the United States. Simpsons Ltd. offers an appraisal service. You can find directions on his website (http://www.simpsonltd.com). Congratulations on keeping this beautiful Luger in such wonderuful condition. You have something to be truly proud of.

Mike

Ron Wood · 12-25-2009, 12:41 PM

I'm sorry Bill. We all got so caught up in the wonderful condition of your Luger we completely forgot to identify it. It is a Model 1900 American Eagle that was specifically intended for the US market. It is roughly mid-production so perhaps it dates from 1903 but can't nail it down much more than that. It has a "long" frame and receiver, with the classic 120mm long "pencil" barrel.
If you can get some nice clear photos of the gun, you can probably get a very accurate estimate of worth right here on the forum and save yourself the hassle of shipping with the attendant shipping cost and appraisal fees.
Thank you for sharing this treasure.
Ron

P.S. Mike beat me to the draw...again!

gearheadbill · 12-25-2009, 02:02 PM

Again, thanks to all. As soon as I get my better camera fixed/replaced or borrow one from someone, I'll try to get some better pics and post them.

Is indirect sunlight the best for taking photos like we want to see? As well as not being a Luger guy I am also not a photographer. My camera work is strictly snapshot and Ebay oriented.

gearheadbill · 12-25-2009, 02:09 PM

Also it occurs to me that a written appraisal by someone such as Simpson might go a long way toward providing whatever my insurance company might require in case of loss. Perhaps I should do both.

Jasta2 · 12-25-2009, 03:23 PM

Watch out for 'Fireproof Safes'!! I bought a nice smaller one $300+. It might save things in a fire, but, at least mine, must have not kept out moisture. I was thinking on placing a couple of nice handguns in it, glad I did not. After two months I opened the safe and found evrything inside becomming quite moldy. Now I had $5k of damp funny smelling cash! That mositure would have played havoc on the pistols. I have now relocated the safe and added disacent(sp) bags to it and have had not further problems, but will not store handguns in it. Maybe the safes 'hidding place' in the basement lead to this problem.

12-24-2009, 04:14 PM	#1
gearheadbill User Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 26 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	New Boy w/questions Hello. My name is Bill Hulbert. I am 63, live in Washigton State, married w/kids/grandkids etc.. I am not a gun collector but own a number of firearms of many different stripes. I like guns and think everyone should own a gun or two and know how to operate them. Knowledgeable gun ownership a safer society makes. The reason I have joined this particular forum is that I have in my possession what I believe is an American Eagle Luger. I will attach some very bad pictures as my good camera has gone on the fritz and my old one is, well...old. This gun has been in my family perhaps from it's beginnings. I remember my dad showing me the gun when I was a boy. He was a bird hunter but not interested in anything but utilitarian shotguns. I don't know that he ever fired a pistol unless that was part of OCS training during WWII. On his death in 1986 I inherited several meaningful guns; this Luger is one, along w/a hi-grade Parker Bros double and an early Browning Superposed O/U. My grandfather was more of an appreciator of fine arms and these probably came from him. I know he purchased the Parker in Seattle in 1904. I was prompted recently by my brother-in-law, who is an avid gun collector, to get it out and do some research on it. I just remembered it as an old Luger, wrapped up in a silicone gun cloth, put into a hard case and hidden away in the back of the safe. I have read some of the posts here on this forum and the Dwight Gruber database. Too much information! Overload. I am asking for help identifying my Luger and some understanding as to value etc.. If my description bears some adjusting I am certainly open to correction and being set straight. I just want to know the bottom line. Let me start the description (pics attached) by saying that the gun is in AMAZING condition. The blueing is almost 100%, the straw is 100% as are the grips. I don't know enough to be able to tell but I don't think it's ever been fired. It has a serial number of 15146 w/various small pieces marked 146. Under the serial number on the front of the receiver it says GERMANY. The toggle is marked w/the DWM and the top of the barrel has an eagle/flag/6 pointed star engraving. That's all. No bugs (at least on the outside) or other markings. The safety is on safe when the lever is down, not up and it's not straw-colored behind when the safety is off. There are 2 magazines w/wood bumpers. Any help or further questions are appreciated. Thank you Merry Christmas. Attached Thumbnails

12-24-2009, 05:13 PM	#2
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Outstanding!! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

12-24-2009, 05:16 PM	#3
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Made in 1901 ? Attached Thumbnails

12-24-2009, 08:19 PM	#7
Conny User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Culpeper, Va. Posts: 279 Thanks: 0 Thanked 26 Times in 13 Posts	Gearhead--I can't give you a value but you should be able to get more than $10K easily. It is the most magnificent Original condition American Eagle I have ever seen. I never thought in my life I would see such an example. Hell, if I had any decent amount of money I'd make you an offer. However, it was your Dad's and I honestly believe it should stay in your family forever. Please remember---wipe off all fingerprints after touching. Wipe magazines as well. I'd try not to touch the straw peices much either. keep it in your silicone rag, inside a hard case and in your safe. I know this sounds strange but, try not to fondle it to much. I would not only have it insured but would make sure it would be safe in your "fireproof" safe. __________________ Rangers Lead the Way, Duane Leiker

12-24-2009, 10:24 PM	#10
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,987 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,090 Times in 1,675 Posts	You have a beautiful and pretty magnificent early Luger. However, sharper photos taken in natural light without all the glare will be necessary to provide a more accurate assessment of the condition and value of your gun. Although it appears to be nearly pristine the images are a bit blurry. I think I detect a few tiny points of oxidation and/or wear. For high dollar guns every point off of 100% can mean the difference between $8000 and $5000. In order to be valued at $10,000 the gun would have to be essentially factory new in condition. I am not trying to be a wet blanket, but by the same token I wouldn't want you to have a false sense of worth. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

12-24-2009, 05:31 PM	#4
Ice User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 552 Thanks: 13 Thanked 69 Times in 57 Posts	That is one gorgeous American Eagle. Congratulations on owning such a fine example of family history. Charlie

12-24-2009, 05:37 PM	#5
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	No finer example. --Dwight

12-24-2009, 07:57 PM	#6
gearheadbill User Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 26 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the kudos. Can anyone help me identify more exactly the year, make, model etc.. Also how does one establish value? I'm considering an insurance rider or other coverage for this gun and my parker double.

12-24-2009, 09:34 PM	#8
JIMHAY97 User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Washington State Posts: 28 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Gearhead - I'm no expert but one of the things I would do with this pistol is have a complete set of quality photo's made of it. When it comes to insurance you can't have too much evidence that you did indeed have a rare and valuable item. Also, as stated before by others, wipe the gun down after handling. Jim Buckley, Wa

12-24-2009, 09:53 PM	#9
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Don't know the value of minty 1900. Say $5k? Just a rough guess. 1900 is rare, but not super rare, we still see them here and there, my feeling (could be wrong) is that condition alone won't push the price to $10k. But .... which super nice gun's price is rational? So it could go .....

12-24-2009, 11:31 PM	#11
Conny User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Culpeper, Va. Posts: 279 Thanks: 0 Thanked 26 Times in 13 Posts	My guesstimate was based on the 2 1900 AE Lugers on Simpsons. One reblued for $4.5K and another 90%, thinning straps, grips, etc...for $5K. These don't compare to what Gearhead owns although Ron is most likely correct that $10K may be an over estimate on my part. I do however think it would do very well at lets say, Christie's, Sotheby's, etc. __________________ Rangers Lead the Way, Duane Leiker

12-25-2009, 12:11 AM	#12
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,911 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	For something like this, I would want it looked at very closely, as it could be refinished (a chance is always there). And as others have said, that although very nice and original, the market can be fickle.... Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-25-2009, 10:39 AM	#13
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,772 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Look at the "GERMANY" stamp Ed. It has not been refinished.

12-25-2009, 10:47 AM	#14
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,911 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	I don't think its been refinished, but also hate to get a members hopes up that it might be a 10K luger by just looking at pictures... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-25-2009, 11:05 AM	#15
gearheadbill User Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 26 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for all the input. Value issues aside....what is it exactly? 1900? 1906? short barrel? Long? Navy? Russian? I know it's not soem of these descriptors but I want particulars if possible. Also, where would one go, nationwide, for an evaluation/appraisal? Can the gun be shipped to someone for that purpose? As a 100% neophyte these are important, to me at least, questions. And yes, Mr. Wood, there are several (4-5) very small points of oxidation. Very good eye. Again I'm sorry for the poor photo quality. My "new but broken" camera does an excellent job w/macro closeups.....my old camera sucks at it. Again, thanks to all. Merry Christmas!

12-25-2009, 12:34 PM	#16
Mike B Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 979 Thanks: 1 Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts	Merry Christmas to all, You have a 1900 Commercial American Eagle 7.65mm with a 4 3/4" barrel. It was built in Germany for sales in the United States. Simpsons Ltd. offers an appraisal service. You can find directions on his website (http://www.simpsonltd.com). Congratulations on keeping this beautiful Luger in such wonderuful condition. You have something to be truly proud of. Mike

12-25-2009, 12:41 PM	#17
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,987 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,090 Times in 1,675 Posts	I'm sorry Bill. We all got so caught up in the wonderful condition of your Luger we completely forgot to identify it. It is a Model 1900 American Eagle that was specifically intended for the US market. It is roughly mid-production so perhaps it dates from 1903 but can't nail it down much more than that. It has a "long" frame and receiver, with the classic 120mm long "pencil" barrel. If you can get some nice clear photos of the gun, you can probably get a very accurate estimate of worth right here on the forum and save yourself the hassle of shipping with the attendant shipping cost and appraisal fees. Thank you for sharing this treasure. Ron P.S. Mike beat me to the draw...again! __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

12-25-2009, 02:02 PM	#18
gearheadbill User Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 26 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Again, thanks to all. As soon as I get my better camera fixed/replaced or borrow one from someone, I'll try to get some better pics and post them. Is indirect sunlight the best for taking photos like we want to see? As well as not being a Luger guy I am also not a photographer. My camera work is strictly snapshot and Ebay oriented.

12-25-2009, 02:09 PM	#19
gearheadbill User Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 26 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Also it occurs to me that a written appraisal by someone such as Simpson might go a long way toward providing whatever my insurance company might require in case of loss. Perhaps I should do both.

12-25-2009, 03:23 PM	#20
Jasta2 User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lakeland, Fl. Posts: 514 Thanks: 349 Thanked 101 Times in 52 Posts	Watch out for 'Fireproof Safes'!! I bought a nice smaller one $300+. It might save things in a fire, but, at least mine, must have not kept out moisture. I was thinking on placing a couple of nice handguns in it, glad I did not. After two months I opened the safe and found evrything inside becomming quite moldy. Now I had $5k of damp funny smelling cash! That mositure would have played havoc on the pistols. I have now relocated the safe and added disacent(sp) bags to it and have had not further problems, but will not store handguns in it. Maybe the safes 'hidding place' in the basement lead to this problem.