Bakelite (Plastic) Grip ID

[mrerick]

Hi,

I recently acquired a 1939 Mauser Luger that had been sold by <a well known Luger dealer> as a "Black Widow". Per Hallock and van de Kant, bakelite (or plastic) grips did not appear on Lugers until the next year.

These grips had been painted black with lacquer. I have since cleaned them and removed this lacquer.

Under the lacquered Left Grip, I found a HK (Krieghoff) Coarse grip (as identified by Gibson's study). The first four pictures show this grip - two pictures per grip side from different lighting angles.

The Right Grip appears to be a Mauser type 4 grip (per the Dave Molchan study in Hallock and van de Kant "The Mauser Parabellum"). The next five pictures are of this grip. Per Gibson's study, the Right Grip is not as finely made as the HK grip.

Some of the areas of the right grip, particularly the area near the bottom right (closeup) where the grip screw area is, show areas where the molding was not sharp, and where areas protrude along the boarder.

Gibson describes these Mauser grips as much more crudely made. Is this softness of the checkering typical of these grips? Both grips are hard bakelite and not the thermoplastic seen in reproductions. The holes in the back are threaded.

Do they both appear original and genuine Luger grips from WW-II?

Marc

[CJS57]

I have the exact same pair of black grips! Mine came from a gun dealer's grip box, so no gun to report. Same poor quality pattern right grip, same exact back side! Same normal quality left grip! I have documented 3 such pairs, yours is the 4th I have seen. The right grip is the only thing of interest with these pairs, the left grip is always seen to be a normal known grip panel. I believe the right panel is a late WWII last ditch sort of grip because only the right grip is so crude and is true bakelite material. Why would a fake grip reproducer only make s right hand grip panel? That does not make sense. Additionally, I do not believe a reproduction bakelite grip exists, I will stand corrected when proven wrong with evidence.

See post #215 (mine) on page 22 near the end of the thread.

http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...REQUEST/page22


Ps, When you say "softness" of the checkering I assume you mean the diamonds are dull and rounded, not that the material is soft like plastic.

[mrerick]

Yes... by softness I am referring to the molded edges of the diamonds, and the contour of the edges. This material appears to be bakelite, and not paint, lacquer or some other thing added after the grips were molded. As you can see in the closeup, some of the diamonds are completely rounded, and shaped like teardrops.

You got quite a deal on a pair of original grips, even if mismatched.

Marc

[alanint]

The black grip is a reproduction, in my opinion. It is cast from a mold made from an original grips, therefore the poor detail.

[ithacaartist]

The area for the grip screw appears to have been fitted by whittling--not exactly a fine hand fit job. How common or proper is this? Odd that a series of of crappy left black grips has not been noted? Hmmm...

[CJS57]

Since Marc's grips came on a Shatuck gun that could not have them on it originally, and since they were painted black, then whoever fitted (whittled) them to fit Marc's gun well after WWII has no bearing on the originality of the grip itself. As far as poor quality goes, that is what last ditch is all about, get it done anyway you can! Anyone seen last ditch K98's from Mauser? I have and you have too!
-------------------------------------------------------
About the right grip being a poorly cast copy of an original grip. Problem with that theory is that it doesn't match any of the known right grip patterns inside! So just what grip did they use to make the repro casting mold? To say Marc's (and 3 known others) is a repro cast from a mold made by an existing grip doesn't work, because then there should be a known original grip with this pattern inside and there is no such grip!

[CJS57]

Here are pictures of my own right grip like Marc's:

[mrerick]

The right grip back side matches the type 4 Mauser grip pattern photographed in Dave Molchan study in Hallock and van de Kant "The Mauser Parabellum".

It's interesting to see a similar area in Chris's grip.

I'm not sure that the grip screw area edge is the result of chipping off or whittling as much as the compression of the screw itself.

I definitely agree that someone put these on the 1939 Luger post war.

It's odd that such a rare Left grip would be mated repeatedly with these black grips.

Does anyone know the details of the bakelite molding process, and if "speeding things up" could have accounted for these soft edged blob like deposits?

I am concerned that someone may have tried to reproduce these, but by the time this was sold to the prior collector, it would have been cheaper to make them out of thermoplastic as is done today.

Marc