P08 Help

chuck_w · 12-12-2020, 03:59 PM

Hello everyone. I’m new to the P08 and I’m considering making my first purchase so I’m here to ask for help from those more educated than myself. This P08 is advertised as follows...

"This is a DWM Luger from WW1 with both original matching magazines. This lugers upper and lower are mismatched but period correct. The receiver is dated 1911 but the frame has a stock lug. the gun is 98% of the original blue but there are a few areas of light oxidation."

My concerns are that it is advertised as mismatched and that the wear is much less than I would expect for a 100 year old gun. Also, if you could give your opinion on price that would be appreciated.

Doubs · 12-12-2020, 05:10 PM

From what I can see, you have a complete 1911 upper mated to a 1913 or later frame. The stock lug appeared late in 1913 production.

You do not show a good side view of the left side of the pistol so I can't see if the side plate is numbered on the side or underneath. If the take down lever (locking bolt) is numbered, it must be on the side as it's not numbered underneath as a first contract locking bolt would have been. First contract Lugers were made in a continuous serial number run from 1909 ~ 1911.

The finish looks awfully good and I see no evidence of a halo around the barrel or frame serial numbers. I may be wrong, but this pistol may have been restored. If so, the work was excellent.

mrerick · 12-12-2020, 05:31 PM

If you are buying a shooter, and the seller guarantees proper function it may be a good choice. Many things make it look refinished to me.

Value, perhaps $900-1000...

Norme · 12-12-2020, 05:59 PM

The finish, top and bottom, looks all original to me and if it weren't for the mismatch it would be a valuable gun. As it is, its just a beautiful shooter, worth about $1,200.00 not including the extra mag.
Norm

lugerholsterrepair · 12-12-2020, 06:49 PM

This P08 is advertised as follows. You forgot to tell us what the advertised price is...

chuck_w · 12-12-2020, 07:31 PM

Hi Jerry. I put the description in quotations.

"This is a DWM Luger from WW1 with both original matching magazines. This lugers upper and lower are mismatched but period correct. The receiver is dated 1911 but the frame has a stock lug. the gun is 98% of the original blue but there are a few areas of light oxidation."

chuck_w · 12-12-2020, 07:32 PM

Thank you everyone for your input. So just to clarify...it’s not as valuable as some others because it’s not a matching gun and it has probably been refurbished in the past?

Doubs · 12-12-2020, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck_w

Thank you everyone for your input. So just to clarify...it’s not as valuable as some others because it’s not a matching gun and it has probably been refurbished in the past?

That about sums it up although there's a difference of opinion about whether it's original finish or not.

Not one of us can tell if it's a good deal unless we know the asking price.

chuck_w · 12-12-2020, 08:11 PM

Asking price is $1600

gunbugs · 12-12-2020, 08:37 PM

I would expect a realistic market value to be 1000 to 1200, since it is two different guns that have been "married". (A mismatched gun). The finish looks nice to me.

lugerholsterrepair · 12-12-2020, 09:20 PM

Sooo...what do the "two matching" magazines look like? The bottoms that is.

So just to clarify...it’s not as valuable as some (others like a matching gun that has not been refurbished in the past.) because it’s not a matching gun and it has probably been refurbished in the past? YES!

MikeP · 12-12-2020, 11:42 PM

-He shows one mag bottom.
Numbered, but don't look original.

A pretty shooter for $1000-1200.

lugerholsterrepair · 12-12-2020, 11:50 PM

Mike, Thanks! Don't know how I missed that! After seeing it I think some monkey business be going on here..

Most people coming on who want advice are always reluctant to let us know the name of the seller or the asking price. Two important pieces of the puzzle they want advice about. I don't know why it's such a big secret.

Heinz · 12-13-2020, 10:35 AM

Jerry, they may be used to other forums where someone will run out and try to buy it out from under you.

This one is shiny, but I doubt it is original finish , partially because the top and bottom match so closely when somehow both of the originals had something bad happen to their respective missing component. But, it is hard to tell on those photos and if you look close there appears to be some pitting, but I cannot tell if it is under the blue or just ageing.

I would really want to know the dw=ealer before I laid out $1100 for it.

rhuff · 12-13-2020, 01:04 PM

Look at the rear of the frame. This Luger has been shot VERY little if at all since the refinish......no/maybe hint, of toggle train marks. If one were looking for a shooter, I would want the seller to warranty that this Luger performs correctly because of the mismatched parts. To me, that price is too high for what you would be getting. That mag number font looks incorrect to me.

lugerholsterrepair · 12-13-2020, 02:29 PM

That mag number font looks incorrect to me. Yes, since It was made last week with modern number dies.

Proofed · 12-13-2020, 02:57 PM

You could probably find a nice matching alphabet luger for less than the asking price that would be more likely to work just fine

chuck_w · 12-13-2020, 04:54 PM

Thanks for all of the opinions guys. I think the seller feels it is more valuable than it actually is. As for me I had my reservations and now you have confirmed them. I'm really looking for something that is nice but not a museum piece and that I can take to the range every now and then.

4 Scale · 12-13-2020, 06:52 PM

I assess this pistol as a quality refinish/restoration. Wether it is worth what the seller is asking depends on the buyer.

If a basic shooter costs roughly $1,000, and a quality refinish/resotration costs $400 (that is what Charles Danner quoted me a few years back, before he stopped doing the work), then there's a dealer premium of $200 here.

For that $200 premium you get a return guarantee and delivery in a few days and are spared having to spend additional time searching. There is a risk to get burned on any Luger transaction and dealers decrease some (not all) of that risk. So the dealer premium may have value to some people. Probably not to experienced collectors, but not all Luger purchasers are experienced collectors. Every Luger collector was once a newbie.

To me this pistol is ballpark-OK priced for a quality restored/refinished shooter from a dealer. For $1,600 an original finish collectible can be found. But that takes time, effort and some combination of knowledge and luck, and a willingness to wear certain risks. So it depends on the buyer if this gun is worth the asking price.

4 Scale · 12-13-2020, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck_w

I'm really looking for something that is nice but not a museum piece and that I can take to the range every now and then.

This is exactly what I wanted when I bought my first Luger. The best advice I got was to get a shooter for $900 to $1,100 or so.

Instead I got an all-matching original finish '36 Mauser collectible for $1,700 from a dealer in 2014 and shot it for a few months. I got lucky and didn't break anything, but I worried about breaking a part every time I fired the pistol. I realized that the advice to get a shooter first was wise, so I got a shooter too. I still have the shooter and the '36, enjoy them tremendously and don't shoot the '36 anymore.

12-12-2020, 03:59 PM	#1
chuck_w User Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	P08 Help Hello everyone. I’m new to the P08 and I’m considering making my first purchase so I’m here to ask for help from those more educated than myself. This P08 is advertised as follows... "This is a DWM Luger from WW1 with both original matching magazines. This lugers upper and lower are mismatched but period correct. The receiver is dated 1911 but the frame has a stock lug. the gun is 98% of the original blue but there are a few areas of light oxidation." My concerns are that it is advertised as mismatched and that the wear is much less than I would expect for a 100 year old gun. Also, if you could give your opinion on price that would be appreciated. Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

12-12-2020, 05:31 PM	#3
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	If you are buying a shooter, and the seller guarantees proper function it may be a good choice. Many things make it look refinished to me. Value, perhaps $900-1000... __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

12-12-2020, 06:49 PM	#5
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	This P08 is advertised as follows. You forgot to tell us what the advertised price is... __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

12-12-2020, 09:20 PM	#11
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Sooo...what do the "two matching" magazines look like? The bottoms that is. So just to clarify...it’s not as valuable as some (others like a matching gun that has not been refurbished in the past.) because it’s not a matching gun and it has probably been refurbished in the past? YES! __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

12-12-2020, 11:50 PM	#13
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Mike, Thanks! Don't know how I missed that! After seeing it I think some monkey business be going on here.. Most people coming on who want advice are always reluctant to let us know the name of the seller or the asking price. Two important pieces of the puzzle they want advice about. I don't know why it's such a big secret. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

12-12-2020, 05:10 PM	#2
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	From what I can see, you have a complete 1911 upper mated to a 1913 or later frame. The stock lug appeared late in 1913 production. You do not show a good side view of the left side of the pistol so I can't see if the side plate is numbered on the side or underneath. If the take down lever (locking bolt) is numbered, it must be on the side as it's not numbered underneath as a first contract locking bolt would have been. First contract Lugers were made in a continuous serial number run from 1909 ~ 1911. The finish looks awfully good and I see no evidence of a halo around the barrel or frame serial numbers. I may be wrong, but this pistol may have been restored. If so, the work was excellent.

12-12-2020, 05:59 PM	#4
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,414 Thanks: 224 Thanked 2,591 Times in 930 Posts	The finish, top and bottom, looks all original to me and if it weren't for the mismatch it would be a valuable gun. As it is, its just a beautiful shooter, worth about $1,200.00 not including the extra mag. Norm

12-12-2020, 07:31 PM	#6
chuck_w User Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Jerry. I put the description in quotations. "This is a DWM Luger from WW1 with both original matching magazines. This lugers upper and lower are mismatched but period correct. The receiver is dated 1911 but the frame has a stock lug. the gun is 98% of the original blue but there are a few areas of light oxidation."

12-12-2020, 07:32 PM	#7
chuck_w User Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you everyone for your input. So just to clarify...it’s not as valuable as some others because it’s not a matching gun and it has probably been refurbished in the past?

12-12-2020, 08:11 PM	#9
chuck_w User Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Asking price is $1600

12-12-2020, 08:37 PM	#10
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 635 Thanks: 335 Thanked 1,139 Times in 377 Posts	I would expect a realistic market value to be 1000 to 1200, since it is two different guns that have been "married". (A mismatched gun). The finish looks nice to me.

12-12-2020, 11:42 PM	#12
MikeP User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ILL Posts: 686 Thanks: 36 Thanked 452 Times in 198 Posts	-He shows one mag bottom. Numbered, but don't look original. A pretty shooter for $1000-1200.

12-13-2020, 10:35 AM	#14
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	Jerry, they may be used to other forums where someone will run out and try to buy it out from under you. This one is shiny, but I doubt it is original finish , partially because the top and bottom match so closely when somehow both of the originals had something bad happen to their respective missing component. But, it is hard to tell on those photos and if you look close there appears to be some pitting, but I cannot tell if it is under the blue or just ageing. I would really want to know the dw=ealer before I laid out $1100 for it.

12-13-2020, 01:04 PM	#15
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,270 Thanks: 2,686 Thanked 958 Times in 704 Posts	Look at the rear of the frame. This Luger has been shot VERY little if at all since the refinish......no/maybe hint, of toggle train marks. If one were looking for a shooter, I would want the seller to warranty that this Luger performs correctly because of the mismatched parts. To me, that price is too high for what you would be getting. That mag number font looks incorrect to me. __________________ Need DWM breechblock #21

12-13-2020, 02:29 PM	#16
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	That mag number font looks incorrect to me. Yes, since It was made last week with modern number dies. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

12-13-2020, 02:57 PM	#17
Proofed User Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Pa. Posts: 157 Thanks: 535 Thanked 338 Times in 90 Posts	You could probably find a nice matching alphabet luger for less than the asking price that would be more likely to work just fine

12-13-2020, 04:54 PM	#18
chuck_w User Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for all of the opinions guys. I think the seller feels it is more valuable than it actually is. As for me I had my reservations and now you have confirmed them. I'm really looking for something that is nice but not a museum piece and that I can take to the range every now and then.

12-13-2020, 06:52 PM	#19
4 Scale User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 544 Thanks: 194 Thanked 489 Times in 251 Posts	I assess this pistol as a quality refinish/restoration. Wether it is worth what the seller is asking depends on the buyer. If a basic shooter costs roughly $1,000, and a quality refinish/resotration costs $400 (that is what Charles Danner quoted me a few years back, before he stopped doing the work), then there's a dealer premium of $200 here. For that $200 premium you get a return guarantee and delivery in a few days and are spared having to spend additional time searching. There is a risk to get burned on any Luger transaction and dealers decrease some (not all) of that risk. So the dealer premium may have value to some people. Probably not to experienced collectors, but not all Luger purchasers are experienced collectors. Every Luger collector was once a newbie. To me this pistol is ballpark-OK priced for a quality restored/refinished shooter from a dealer. For $1,600 an original finish collectible can be found. But that takes time, effort and some combination of knowledge and luck, and a willingness to wear certain risks. So it depends on the buyer if this gun is worth the asking price.