9mm ammo

DavidJayUden · 09-29-2018, 02:56 PM

Just bought a case of this stuff and tried some out at the range. Only fired 15 rounds thru my 1936 P08 shooter, but got perfect function and better accuracy than I deserve. No problems in the other three 9's I tried either.

https://www.sgammo.com/product/barna...ox-lacquered-s

Sieger · 09-29-2018, 06:52 PM

David,

Lugers were not designed for steel cases, as they were designed with a stepped chamber (for one thing).

In fact, only brass cased ammo marked "Nur fur Pistole 08", "for P-08 pistols only" was so marked and issued by the Germans throughout WWII.

Coupled with, no doubt, overloaded velocity; this ammo could cause you some real mechanical problems, if shot through a Luger regularly.

I'd save this ammo for a more modern 9mm pistol.

Sieger

Major Tom · 09-30-2018, 10:38 AM

Do all 9mm lugers have "stepped" chambers? My 1939 chamber doesn't seem to have that.

Sieger · 09-30-2018, 05:22 PM

Major Tom,

Yes, all original Lugers have the stepped chamber, as this was considered an advanced design feature (aids in sealing the case to the chamber walls).

Remakes, including the Interarms models from the 1970s and the stainless steel knock-offs do not.

I don't know about the new .45 recreations, but I would suspect that they do also.

Hope this helps.

Sieger

kurusu · 09-30-2018, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sieger

Major Tom,

Yes, all original Lugers have the stepped chamber.

Remakes, including the Interarms copies from the 1970s and the stainless steel knock-offs do not.

I don't know about the new .45 recreations, but I would suspect that they do also.

Hope this helps.

Sieger

Mauser stopped using stepped chambers in 1942.

Sieger · 09-30-2018, 11:15 PM

Kurusu,

Perhaps.

I've "read" this too, somewhere, but have never been able to verify it.

Can an expert here verify this claim, through an actual, physical chamber examination of a byf 42?

Also, I haven't been able to locate any original German text documentation supporting this.

Thanks!

Sieger

DonVoigt · 10-01-2018, 09:41 AM

I'm no "expert" but I have looked at late Mauser chambers that do not have the step.
The drawing or order showing its elimination is in the Goertz and Sturgess book,IIRC; but I have seen it in the original form somewhere.

4 Scale · 10-01-2018, 10:16 AM

Out of curiosity I just inspected my 1942 byf s/n 2611g and it has a stepped chamber. Per Hallock and van de Kant in The Mauser Parabellum, this s/n is about mid-point of the 1942 production run. My '36, '38, and '40 Mausers also have stepped chambers.

Another concern vs. the ammo in the OP would be if the primers are corrosive or not.

DavidJayUden · 10-01-2018, 10:49 AM

"Another concern vs. the ammo in the OP would be if the primers are corrosive or not."

Non-corrosive primers, standard velocity, 115 gr. FMJ, and it functions perfectly.

But by all means, go ahead and rationalize spending twice as much for what is functionally the same thing. After all, it's your money.

dju

4 Scale · 10-01-2018, 11:31 AM

If the round chambers correctly and the specs are correct I can't see how this would damage a Luger.

Vlim · 10-01-2018, 11:46 AM

Even if the initial signs are good, I would not put any Russian crap in my guns. Not only because of poor QA, but also because it's Russian. This particular brand has a tendancy to show up in conflict zones across the globe as well. Preferred supplier of the average terrorist. An economy I don't like to support in any way.

Google MH17 ...

flydive · 10-01-2018, 03:13 PM

Yes, you will never find European or American guns or ammunition in conflict zones...

Well, yes, if you find it is only in the hands of the good guys

DonVoigt · 10-01-2018, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flydive

Yes, you will never find European or American guns or ammunition in conflict zones...

Well, yes, if you find it is only in the hands of the good guys

That't a joke, right?

Vlim · 10-01-2018, 04:28 PM

Actually it's not far from the truth. A few AR style rifles were found in IS territory, but these were mostly show guns for high ranking officers, as they hardly had .223 available.

The Russian ammo was there in abundance, however... even commercial packaged AK ammo from Barnauld and the likes.

The fact that the Russian gov't loaned anti aircraft missiles to Ukrainian insurgents who used one to shoot down a Malaysian airliner filled with mostly Dutch holidaymakers and tried to cover this up, rather than accept responsibility for it, doesn't help either.

flydive · 10-01-2018, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

That't a joke, right?

More a bit of sarcasm than a joke.

But Vlim really seems to believe it

rhuff · 10-01-2018, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

Just bought a case of this stuff and tried some out at the range. Only fired 15 rounds thru my 1936 P08 shooter, but got perfect function and better accuracy than I deserve. No problems in the other three 9's I tried either.

https://www.sgammo.com/product/barna...ox-lacquered-s

David,

I have purchased a fair amount of ammo from SGAMMO, and have been happy with their operation. Only 1-2 weeks ago, SGAMMO had a two(2) day only sale on PMC 115gr FMJ 9mm ammo, and I couldn't pass it up. This ammo works great in my Lugers and one other ammo sensitive weapon. Glad to hear that your purchase has been a success for you in your weapons.....always a nice feeling to make a good choice!! The price was certainly attractive, and would be popular for 9mm "buzz gun" owners.

DavidJayUden · 10-01-2018, 05:30 PM

I can't really reload FMJ ammo for that price.
It's a win-win.

Vlim · 10-01-2018, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flydive

More a bit of sarcasm than a joke.

But Vlim really seems to believe it

I read the reports on small arms finds in former IS territory. Mostly Russian, some Chinese and very few US guns.

kurusu · 10-01-2018, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sieger

Kurusu,

Perhaps.

I've "read" this too, somewhere, but have never been able to verify it.

Can an expert here verify this claim, through an actual, physical chamber examination of a byf 42?

Also, I haven't been able to locate any original German text documentation supporting this.

Thanks!

Sieger

I read it too. But to me the proof is:

A friend of mine (retired militay) has one of our contract byf 42s (n block). It has conic chambers and it has never been messed with.

Vlim · 10-01-2018, 06:50 PM

Mauser worked on a request by the army and developed a hand reamer for the job. But since the P08 was already near the end of production in 1942, not much importance was given to the project.

Factory documents on the subject did survive.

Portuguese 5012m also has no step.

09-29-2018, 02:56 PM	#1
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	9mm ammo Just bought a case of this stuff and tried some out at the range. Only fired 15 rounds thru my 1936 P08 shooter, but got perfect function and better accuracy than I deserve. No problems in the other three 9's I tried either. https://www.sgammo.com/product/barna...ox-lacquered-s

09-30-2018, 10:38 AM	#3
Major Tom User Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: S.E. Iowa Posts: 484 Thanks: 533 Thanked 227 Times in 124 Posts	Do all 9mm lugers have "stepped" chambers? My 1939 chamber doesn't seem to have that. __________________ I Build Custom Pistol Boxes

10-01-2018, 09:41 AM	#7
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	I'm no "expert" but I have looked at late Mauser chambers that do not have the step. The drawing or order showing its elimination is in the Goertz and Sturgess book,IIRC; but I have seen it in the original form somewhere. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

09-29-2018, 06:52 PM	#2
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	David, Lugers were not designed for steel cases, as they were designed with a stepped chamber (for one thing). In fact, only brass cased ammo marked "Nur fur Pistole 08", "for P-08 pistols only" was so marked and issued by the Germans throughout WWII. Coupled with, no doubt, overloaded velocity; this ammo could cause you some real mechanical problems, if shot through a Luger regularly. I'd save this ammo for a more modern 9mm pistol. Sieger

09-30-2018, 05:22 PM	#4
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	Major Tom, Yes, all original Lugers have the stepped chamber, as this was considered an advanced design feature (aids in sealing the case to the chamber walls). Remakes, including the Interarms models from the 1970s and the stainless steel knock-offs do not. I don't know about the new .45 recreations, but I would suspect that they do also. Hope this helps. Sieger

09-30-2018, 11:15 PM	#6
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	Kurusu, Perhaps. I've "read" this too, somewhere, but have never been able to verify it. Can an expert here verify this claim, through an actual, physical chamber examination of a byf 42? Also, I haven't been able to locate any original German text documentation supporting this. Thanks! Sieger

10-01-2018, 10:16 AM	#8
4 Scale User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 544 Thanks: 194 Thanked 489 Times in 251 Posts	Out of curiosity I just inspected my 1942 byf s/n 2611g and it has a stepped chamber. Per Hallock and van de Kant in The Mauser Parabellum, this s/n is about mid-point of the 1942 production run. My '36, '38, and '40 Mausers also have stepped chambers. Another concern vs. the ammo in the OP would be if the primers are corrosive or not.

10-01-2018, 10:49 AM	#9
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	"Another concern vs. the ammo in the OP would be if the primers are corrosive or not." Non-corrosive primers, standard velocity, 115 gr. FMJ, and it functions perfectly. But by all means, go ahead and rationalize spending twice as much for what is functionally the same thing. After all, it's your money. dju

10-01-2018, 11:31 AM	#10
4 Scale User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 544 Thanks: 194 Thanked 489 Times in 251 Posts	If the round chambers correctly and the specs are correct I can't see how this would damage a Luger.

10-01-2018, 11:46 AM	#11
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Even if the initial signs are good, I would not put any Russian crap in my guns. Not only because of poor QA, but also because it's Russian. This particular brand has a tendancy to show up in conflict zones across the globe as well. Preferred supplier of the average terrorist. An economy I don't like to support in any way. Google MH17 ...

10-01-2018, 03:13 PM	#12
flydive User Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Switzerland Posts: 63 Thanks: 1 Thanked 45 Times in 23 Posts	Yes, you will never find European or American guns or ammunition in conflict zones... Well, yes, if you find it is only in the hands of the good guys

10-01-2018, 04:28 PM	#14
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Actually it's not far from the truth. A few AR style rifles were found in IS territory, but these were mostly show guns for high ranking officers, as they hardly had .223 available. The Russian ammo was there in abundance, however... even commercial packaged AK ammo from Barnauld and the likes. The fact that the Russian gov't loaned anti aircraft missiles to Ukrainian insurgents who used one to shoot down a Malaysian airliner filled with mostly Dutch holidaymakers and tried to cover this up, rather than accept responsibility for it, doesn't help either.

10-01-2018, 05:30 PM	#17
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I can't really reload FMJ ammo for that price. It's a win-win.

10-01-2018, 06:50 PM	#20
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Mauser worked on a request by the army and developed a hand reamer for the job. But since the P08 was already near the end of production in 1942, not much importance was given to the project. Factory documents on the subject did survive. Portuguese 5012m also has no step.