VintageGunGrips

stressed · 02-09-2014, 07:50 PM

Suck.

I got some repro black widow grips, and the angle isn't even close to being correct to the luger.

Gunsmith said it would look like a 3rd grader put them on if he tried to fit them. He also showed me where he sanded on them for fitment, and the sanded areas were plain as day and non-polishable. It's not injected molded plastic, more like a powder plastic compressed.

Anyone else make repro black widow grips? I got these from Numrich.

TheRomanhistorian · 02-09-2014, 07:58 PM

I have their Webley and Scott .32 calibre ones and, well, they're the only game in town for that one, alas. That V spring would break the original grips for my poor Webley semi-auto and that's why I went with them.

Sorry to hear about the Luger ones. I second the comment about the powder plastic type stuff. They're not bad but they're not great. I'd get them only if there wasn't another choice. Have you perhaps asked Luger Doc if he has some grips?

sheepherder · 02-09-2014, 09:48 PM

+ 1 on the "they suck"...

I got a set directly from the maker; black grooved plastic for my P-38. Warped, air holes, no grommets, no screw, poor fit.

The VoPo P-38 came with OEM brown Bakelite grips; I looked for the OEM black Bakelite but at the time, they were going for ~$200 pr...

I even tried Numrich's walnut grips (original grooved style) but the shape is just slightly different from original; just enough that they look grotesque...Too bad, as the fit, workmanship, and attention to detail are outstanding...

stressed · 02-09-2014, 10:17 PM

If I could get a mold made somehow I would have quality ones made. Obviously the mold they have is worthless IMO.

sheepherder · 02-09-2014, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stressed

If I could get a mold made somehow I would have quality ones made. Obviously the mold they have is worthless IMO.

They mold directly from old worn grips. Here are two sets of their grips (from their site) for the FN1900 .32 auto...Besides the air holes, they even left in the gouges, scratches, and worn checkering...

stressed · 02-09-2014, 11:49 PM

Hmm. I wonder if you can see the FN on the handle of the FN in the handle of the FN.

Lugerdoc · 02-10-2014, 09:58 AM

Stressed, NC Ordnance also makes repro Black Widow grips, but they're not any better than the ones from Vintage. If you're lucky, you might find a set of postwar repros from Finland or Portugal that do fit well, but the boarders or checkering will be slightly different from the WW2 German made ones. TH

ithacaartist · 02-10-2014, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder

They mold directly from old worn grips. Here are two sets of their grips (from [url=http://vintagegungrips.net/nsearch.html]

Yes, this is correct. I worked with the owner lady a couple of years ago, and they blended a new color to mimic the "red Swiss" grips. The first set they sent had air holes and was the thick, coarse style that appears on many of the Mauser Swiss variations. I sanded them down to get rid of the rough pattern--which also eliminated the offending air holes--and re-contoured them to get rid of the relatively hard corners, then re-checkered, as practice, in 20 lpi. The result is comfy shooter grips for my Mauser 29/70 9mm 6". The one failing I found is that the 70's Mauser grips' steel locating pins on the back will be reproduced in urethane, and they will snap off if you're not careful in fitting them! I wound up having to run a line of epoxy to line things up with the frame, one one side. Urethane has its limitations, seeming to be soft and brittle at the same time, but I think OK for sacrificial shooter grips.

Unfortunately, their stock of available molds is taken from examples sent in, and obviously the repros can be no better than the examples from which they were molded. The best case would be to find some excellent grips and have them copied for free.

The policy of the enterprise is to make a set of grips for free, for anyone who sends them a set of grips for which they don't already have a mold. I did this next, also in Swiss red, with the Mauser's original wood grips, which are the thinner, more comfortable style. I'd imagine that they would swap a pair of free grips for a the loan of any pair in better condition than what they may already have.

My next planned move is to send the urethane grips I re-checkered to have an extra pair, in exchange for giving them access to the new/different pattern to mold. This will also come in handy for making a set of Erma KGP69 grips based on a pair from which I have removed the thumb rest, filled the front and back in solid with epoxy putty, and plan to re-checker in borderless full pattern 20 lpi--something that will help the Erma mimic a P.08 a bit better.

Scott, was heat polishing tried, to re-establish the finish on the sanded areas?

stressed · 02-10-2014, 11:56 PM

Well I just ordered a set from NC ordinance, so we shall see the quality. Has anyone ordered the ones that are from the Czech republic on eBay? CZ makes good guns, maybe the folks there make good grips too.

Olle · 02-11-2014, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stressed

Well I just ordered a set from NC ordinance, so we shall see the quality. Has anyone ordered the ones that are from the Czech republic on eBay? CZ makes good guns, maybe the folks there make good grips too.

You mean these? http://www.ebay.com/itm/GERMAN-ARMY-...#ht_253wt_1153

I have bought several sets of grips from this seller, ranging from workable to excellent. As already mentioned, the repro is only as good as the master you use to make the mold, but it seems like this guy can make perfect grips if he has access to good originals. For example: The grips for Radom, Sauer 38H and P.38 are excellent, but the PP grips are cast from a worn, bowed original set and not very good at all.

My only complaint would be that the resin he uses has a slightly dull look to it, but I have found that they are fairly easy to polish. Here's a picture of one original P.38 panel, and one from Vit-Zemanek (after polish). It takes a keen eye to spot the repro.

sheepherder · 02-11-2014, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olle

You mean these? http://www.ebay.com/itm/GERMAN-ARMY-...#ht_253wt_1153

I have bought several sets of grips from this seller...

Which seller, Olle??? The one the thread is about, the other seller, or the seller/link you provided???

Here's a set of NC Ordnance P-38 grips. They live in a box, in a dark drawer...Where no one will ever see them...

(I had wondered why so many people post here asking for P-38 screw + escutcheons...)

stressed · 02-11-2014, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olle

You mean these? http://www.ebay.com/itm/GERMAN-ARMY-...#ht_253wt_1153

I have bought several sets of grips from this seller, ranging from workable to excellent. As already mentioned, the repro is only as good as the master you use to make the mold, but it seems like this guy can make perfect grips if he has access to good originals. For example: The grips for Radom, Sauer 38H and P.38 are excellent, but the PP grips are cast from a worn, bowed original set and not very good at all.

My only complaint would be that the resin he uses has a slightly dull look to it, but I have found that they are fairly easy to polish. Here's a picture of one original P.38 panel, and one from Vit-Zemanek (after polish). It takes a keen eye to spot the repro.

Yes, I mean Vit-Zemanek. Looks like I am ordering a set from him.

Sheepherder, those look to be junk! How could you "proudly" put your name on that?

sheepherder · 02-11-2014, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stressed

Sheepherder, those look to be junk! How could you "proudly" put your name on that?

Uh, well...I do the best I can with what I've got...

stressed · 02-11-2014, 06:53 PM

I was referencing the paper next to them - "made proudly by NC Ordinance"

So looks like the ones I have coming will be junk grips for modifying.

rolandtg · 02-11-2014, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder

They mold directly from old worn grips. Here are two sets of their grips (from their site) for the FN1900 .32 auto...Besides the air holes, they even left in the gouges, scratches, and worn checkering...

Yeah, I got a repro set for my FN Vest Pocket .25 that looked just like that.
I only needed one side and it'll have to do until I find something better.

Olle · 02-12-2014, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Which seller, Olle??? The one the thread is about, the other seller, or the seller/link you provided???

Like stressed said I'm talking about Vit-Zemanek, which is the guy I linked to. He's good to deal with, I have bought several sets from him and I highly recommend his grips for Radom, P.38 and Sauer 38H.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Here's a set of NC Ordnance P-38 grips. They live in a box, in a dark drawer...Where no one will ever see them...

(I had wondered why so many people post here asking for P-38 screw + escutcheons...)

Vit-Zemanek's P.38 grips come with the escutcheons molded in, but other reproductions may not (some are even threaded straight into the resin). I made a batch of reproduction screws/escutcheons a while back, they are available from Ron Clarin (his user name is "Ron C." here, and "Ron from Minnesota" on the P.38 forum).

stressed · 02-12-2014, 07:19 PM

Alright guys, I just ordered a set from Vit.

So when I get them, I will make a quality comparison between Vintage Gun Grips, NC ordinance and Vit Zemanek's with pictures.

This should help our members on what to purchase.

stressed · 02-18-2014, 08:39 PM

Just received my NC Ordinance grips today. Honestly they look better quality then the VintageGunGrips. Plastic is more glossy as well and not as dull and flat. Grip angle looks slightly less, which is good because it was over exaggerated on the VGG grips to the point where they were unusable. Luger is at gunsmiths house so I shall drop off grips tomorrow.

stressed · 02-18-2014, 09:53 PM

NC Ordinance grips:

stressed · 02-19-2014, 07:20 PM

My G date with grips fitted. Took 40 minutes to fit. Plastic is smaller grain then the VGG and sanded better. You could actually polish where you sanded. Will advise and fit Vit's after recieveing them.

02-09-2014, 07:50 PM	#1
stressed User Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 197 Thanks: 41 Thanked 43 Times in 30 Posts	VintageGunGrips Suck. I got some repro black widow grips, and the angle isn't even close to being correct to the luger. Gunsmith said it would look like a 3rd grader put them on if he tried to fit them. He also showed me where he sanded on them for fitment, and the sanded areas were plain as day and non-polishable. It's not injected molded plastic, more like a powder plastic compressed. Anyone else make repro black widow grips? I got these from Numrich.

02-09-2014, 07:58 PM	#2
TheRomanhistorian User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 301 Thanks: 170 Thanked 88 Times in 64 Posts	I have their Webley and Scott .32 calibre ones and, well, they're the only game in town for that one, alas. That V spring would break the original grips for my poor Webley semi-auto and that's why I went with them. Sorry to hear about the Luger ones. I second the comment about the powder plastic type stuff. They're not bad but they're not great. I'd get them only if there wasn't another choice. Have you perhaps asked Luger Doc if he has some grips? __________________ Michael Nos morituri te salutant - Supposed saying of the gladiators to the emperor ('We, who are about to die, salute you.') 'We are the lantern bearers, my friend; for us to keep something burning, to carry what light we can forward into the darkness and the wind' - From Rosemary Sutcliff's The Lantern Bearers

02-09-2014, 09:48 PM	#3
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	+ 1 on the "they suck"... I got a set directly from the maker; black grooved plastic for my P-38. Warped, air holes, no grommets, no screw, poor fit. The VoPo P-38 came with OEM brown Bakelite grips; I looked for the OEM black Bakelite but at the time, they were going for ~$200 pr... I even tried Numrich's walnut grips (original grooved style) but the shape is just slightly different from original; just enough that they look grotesque...Too bad, as the fit, workmanship, and attention to detail are outstanding... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

02-10-2014, 09:58 AM	#7
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Stressed, NC Ordnance also makes repro Black Widow grips, but they're not any better than the ones from Vintage. If you're lucky, you might find a set of postwar repros from Finland or Portugal that do fit well, but the boarders or checkering will be slightly different from the WW2 German made ones. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

02-18-2014, 09:53 PM	#19
stressed User Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 197 Thanks: 41 Thanked 43 Times in 30 Posts	NC Ordinance grips: __________________ Looking for any Mauser S/42 #89 parts

02-09-2014, 10:17 PM	#4
stressed User Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 197 Thanks: 41 Thanked 43 Times in 30 Posts	If I could get a mold made somehow I would have quality ones made. Obviously the mold they have is worthless IMO.

02-09-2014, 11:49 PM	#6
stressed User Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 197 Thanks: 41 Thanked 43 Times in 30 Posts	Hmm. I wonder if you can see the FN on the handle of the FN in the handle of the FN.

02-10-2014, 11:56 PM	#9
stressed User Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 197 Thanks: 41 Thanked 43 Times in 30 Posts	Well I just ordered a set from NC ordinance, so we shall see the quality. Has anyone ordered the ones that are from the Czech republic on eBay? CZ makes good guns, maybe the folks there make good grips too.

02-11-2014, 06:53 PM	#14
stressed User Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 197 Thanks: 41 Thanked 43 Times in 30 Posts	I was referencing the paper next to them - "made proudly by NC Ordinance" So looks like the ones I have coming will be junk grips for modifying.

02-12-2014, 07:19 PM	#17
stressed User Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 197 Thanks: 41 Thanked 43 Times in 30 Posts	Alright guys, I just ordered a set from Vit. So when I get them, I will make a quality comparison between Vintage Gun Grips, NC ordinance and Vit Zemanek's with pictures. This should help our members on what to purchase.

02-18-2014, 08:39 PM	#18
stressed User Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 197 Thanks: 41 Thanked 43 Times in 30 Posts	Just received my NC Ordinance grips today. Honestly they look better quality then the VintageGunGrips. Plastic is more glossy as well and not as dull and flat. Grip angle looks slightly less, which is good because it was over exaggerated on the VGG grips to the point where they were unusable. Luger is at gunsmiths house so I shall drop off grips tomorrow.

02-19-2014, 07:20 PM	#20
stressed User Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 197 Thanks: 41 Thanked 43 Times in 30 Posts	My G date with grips fitted. Took 40 minutes to fit. Plastic is smaller grain then the VGG and sanded better. You could actually polish where you sanded. Will advise and fit Vit's after recieveing them.