Broomhandle disaster....

[Sam Steele]

Hello Gents,

I've given up on the Mauser 1896 Forum due to the spammers, and wondered if someone could guide me through the dreaded rocker coupling fiasco.

I just purchased a beautiful minty Conehammer from Simpson, and when I tried to field strip it, the frame will not slide off. (I know that the safety is OFF when the lever is UP).

Anyhoo, when pushing up on the latch, the lock frame assembly moves about a quarter-inch rearward, then stops...you can feel it coming into contact with something.

Any suggestions? A beautiful gun with matching stock and grips.

Cheers,

Bill

[alanint]

This may seem obvious, but have you removed the magazine base plate, mag spring and cartridge follower?

[alvin]

Originally Posted by Sam Steele

A beautiful gun with matching stock and grips.

You got his best one in this wave. It's hard to predict what else will come out, but that's the best one so far. Hope it works out. It's a great piece to own! Congrat.

[sheepherder]

I have J. B. Wood's book with the "unlocking the rocker coupling" article in it...I was going to scan it...but that's already been done!

http://1896mauser.com/jam.htm

Note that the lockwork will come out about a quarter inch before it hits the rocker coupling...(#4, pg 125)...

I have not been able to put the coupling in backwards...It's not that I've tried...It's that in my two C96's, it's not possible to put it in reversed...It just won't go...

Your conehammer may be different...

The way that ground & bent screwdriver works is that you pull out the firing pin and the bolt stop and then remove the bolt...leave hammer cocked, safety off, pull the lockwork as far back as you can, and stick the screwdriver down the top behind the mag wall and the lock frame, and push against the spring plunger...That should (according to Wood) unload the rocker, and with some jiggling it can pull out...

I'm looking at mine and I see how it can be done, but I don't think I can take a good pic of it...

BTW: It takes a *lot* of pressure on that plunger to move the spring...

[Sam Steele]

Thanks guys....She has matching serial numbers on the grips(pristine),mag follower,firing pin retaining plate, underside of sight,frame....that I've been able to see so far. Stock is also numbered with minty screws and blued metal innards.

It appears that someone recently field stripped and oiled her, but put something in the wrong spot. Maybe you can't insert the rocker coupling incorrectly in a normal Broomie, but this IS a Conehammer! I have her sitting in a hand made mahogany case that includes the stock, DM marked clip and ammo. I just need the PUTZSTOCK cleaning rod, and I'm all set!

Beautiful finish on the old girl. I plan to keep it that way during and AFTER the "operation".

Cheers,

Bill

[alvin]

The factory cleaning rod is not cheap. There are fewer gun cases than cleaning rods, fewer cleaning rods than stocks, and fewer stock than guns (case < rod < stock < gun). But the gun and stock are the main body, others are optional IMO.

The rarest stuff is probably the manual.

[Sam Steele]

Well.....I managed to get out the firing pin and retainer plate, then removed the bolt stop and recoil spring. But still, the bolt was reluctant to leave.

I tried the takedown latch again, and jiggled the slide while I tugged on the bolt.

VOILA! The bolt stopped at the hammer, so pulling back slightly on the hammer, I eased out the bolt. I took off the bits around the lock, and now I'm left with two dilemmas.....How to get the trigger subframe assembly out (it's not like the later pistols), but most importantly, I'm presently stumped as to how to remove the rocker coupling, as it sits in [I]front[I] of the mainspring and plunger!

Geez....every part is correctly serial numbered 5866.... except for the takedown latch (27) and the disconnector(just a crown). Lots of letters (and crowns) here and there, too.

While I'm pondering the rocker coupling and mainspring, what is a good solvent for removing dried grease. There's no rust, thankfully, and I'm fascinated that the rocker coupling is a very shiny yellow steel - must be from that Krupp guy
As for lubricant....Rust Check, or G96? Something a little heavier?

Thanks again gents, especially Postie.

Cheers,

Bill

[alvin]

Done? Have some pictures?

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by alvin

Done? Have some pictures?

Did you get the lockframe assembly out of the pistol???

Here's a pic of the early lockwork...You can see the rocker coupling is in front of the plunger (unlike the later Mausers, which have the plunger in front of the coupling)...

[alvin]

This patent picture is not too far away from CH. There is no plunger, in its place, it's a spring plug. It's extremely hard to disassemble the coupling out even when the lock work is taken out of the frame. My way was pushing the hammer pivot out to release the hammer and main spring, then it's easy to take the coupling out. But obviously that does not work when the lock work is in the frame.

Is it still in the frame?

[alvin]

JBW's method must be revised on CH -- there is no plunger pretruding out of the lock work in the front, so there is nothing that you can push in from the front, as shown on JBW's article.

It can be put in, then there must be a way to take it out. Somehow you have to hold the main spring back so it does push the coupling..... how about just pushing the plug backwards using a tool.....

[rolandtg]

Originally Posted by Sam Steele

While I'm pondering the rocker coupling and mainspring, what is a good solvent for removing dried grease?

I use cheap spray carb cleaner. It's basically spray acetone. I haven't found anything that cuts grease, oil, or cosmoline better and it won't harm the finish.
And it's like $1.69 a can at Walmart.

[Sam Steele]

Thanks for the diagramme, Postie, and your comments, Alvin.

The only problem with drifting out the sear spring, is trying to get it back in for reassembly! That mainspring is one stiff critter. It would put Viagra to shame.

Was there a tool....something fork-shaped......that would insert between the mainspring "cap" and rocker, so that by applying rearward pressure, the rocker would slip away?
Still thinking about that.

As for solvent, perhaps pure mineral spirits to remove the dried gummy residue, then Hoppes "Blast and Clean" for good measure, prior to oiling. I still like Rust Check, or G96.....but do I need a lubricant with higher viscosity?

I'll post some pics soon. Thanks for yours, Alvin.

Cheers,

Bill

[Sam Steele]

Oh yes.....The lock is out of the frame. Just needed some TLC and swear words.

The Scottish in me thanks you, Roland.....Carb cleaner sounds good, too.


Cheers,

Bill

[alvin]

Great! That's the hardest part. Put the thing back is easier than stripping it. No fixed way, any way works without cause damage is a good way.

Gun oil like "Hoppe's 9" would wash away dried grease. I apply "RIG Universal Grease" inside the gun, and applies "Renaissance Wax" outside. A little bit "Hoppe's 9" can play wax solvant role as well, so the surface does not appear very dry. Works well for me. No oil of any kind on wood grip. If you plan to shoot it, then no wax or grease. This one is a little bit too nice to shoot though.

Weird enough, the disconnector and TD latch on Standard CH is unnumbered. But that's correct.

[Sam Steele]

....Unless I can find a safe way to remove the rocker and trigger assembly, I may just soak her to get rid of the old grease and crud, dry her out and oil her. And no, I won't shoot her. I'll buy a clunker to "fill my boots".

Postie's diagramme, by the way, is from the original 1896 specs (you can tell by the hammer spur). There, you can see the similarities to the standard Conehammer that hadn't yet changed in the later production pieces.


Cheers,

Bill

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Sam Steele

Oh yes.....The lock is out of the frame.

If that is so, then the rocker coupling must be in correctly...no???

Yep, those springs got some tension to them...but why are you trying to drift out the sear spring??? The forked tool sounds like a good idea. Release the tension and remove the spring, coupling, and the two end plugs and the rest look like they'll push right out...

IIRC, that drawing/pic with the spur hammer is from the patent drawings...I have the 10 or 12 pages here somewhere...

[alvin]

Bill, what I am interested in is the interior of the stock lid and body. If you could post a pix, I appreciate that. There is something I am curious.

[Sam Steele]

Hello Gents,

Alvin, I will scan pics of the stock for you. Looking at pics of the interior of a Conehammer stock, mine matches perfectly (including the notch cut for the safety). The door latch inside is a beautiful fire blue.

Postie....I've delayed attempting to remove the coupling and trigger group assembly. I did notice the serial number on the floorplate catch. So far, I've used the carb cleaner on the gummy residue, and it worked fine, followed by a spray degreaser. I've since oiled it with Rust Check, and I'm awaiting for the fluid to "creep" into all the nooks and crannies before I wipe off the excess.

Pics tomorrow, I promise. Midnight shift is a killer on me.

Cheers,

Bill

[alvin]

Thanks Bill. I believe the stock is correct. There is something that I noticed on early stocks. You know, more samples are always important to setup certain patterns. "something"....