Problem solved: main spring replacement made easy !

[DWMMAUSERERFURT]

So while I was fine tuning some reproduction grips on my surplus Luger, it just so happened that I found some needle nose pliers around and played with it.
Before I knew it, I had the main spring out and back in.
You even have one hand free to get the retainer thingy out and back in etc. etc.
What a nice exercise since I am going to order the Wolf spring set soon for a tune up.
Do it carefully and there will be no traces on the parts.

I made a short video but I cannot upload that here I found out.

Maybe the pictures will do to give you the idea?

Let me know what you guys think.

[Vlim]

Great way to screw up the finish and damage the metal.

OK for a non-collectable shooter but not recommended on a good collectable.

There are simple and good tools for doing it the correct way.

[DonVoigt]

Ouch!
As Vilm said, there is a tool for that.

The spring "removes" from the other side; so I guess there are a couple pictures missing.

I'll take a picture of my original type tool made by member Jim Solomon and post.

[Dick Herman]

Give Hans a break!
He has shared an innovative way to compress the recoil spring. Any damage to the frame can be prevented by using plastic tubing on the plier jaw that touches the frame.

[Vlim]

It's better to learn the right way, than to invest time and money in getting the wrong way to work.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Vlim

It's better to learn the right way, than to invest time and money in getting the wrong way to work.

...Confucius???...

Agreed. There are several threads with pictures showing 'more better' ways to do it, using proper tools. I believe Jim Solomon markets a clone of the original tool which is used for this purpose. I prefer clamping the bare frame to a table and using a Cotter-pin puller to compress and remove/install the mainspring assembly, then using the puller to 'unscrew' the mainspring from its guide.Pliars slip too often and can be sure to find a blued surface, soft steel, or tender skin to impale.

...$.02...

Edit: Here's a pic from one of my threads. The Cotter-pin puller has a 90º tip that fits in the hole in the mainspring guide. The Luger frame is clamped securely to my mill table.

I've read other threads here about holding the frame between your knees, or pushing it against a table. Yikes! Clamping it down and using a Solomon-type tool (or a pin puller) is the bestest way, IMHO...

[Eugen]

I agree that Jim Solomon's beautiful repo tool makes a difficult job so much easier.

OP, you get a "A" for effort, but looking at that pic you provided made me cringe. Ouch! Get Jim's tool.

A bonus is the Jim's tool works perfectly for replacing the (are you vocabulary restrictions kidding me?!?!) hammer spring on an M1 30 carbine.

[Rick W.]

I have a deep appreciation for guys that use what they got for a specific task. Makes me think of old time farmers making a living in the fields.

Not everyone is made of money for specialized tooling. I have even more admiration for those that use what they have, with results just as nice as those with more stuff.

The key ingredient is in the user oneself. We all know that a 100K lathe with a new operator can mess up the first pass of threads. We also have the garage lathe guys with 100 year old lathes with 50 thousandths or more backlash cut threads with the best of them. So all kinda comes down to pure environment. I have tried over the years not to kick another guy's dog...........still trying.

I learned early on, that these springs require some hand strength and vocabulary restrictions. I won't tell you how I changed out my first mainspring, but we all get smarter and make some new assists.

I kinda like the holding fixture and the modified(heated/bent) awl. Being able to hold things..........stable..........sure does help. I have changed all my shooting Luger springs to the Wolff 38#, I think I am good to go for life with either 30 or 9mm caliber or nice wildcat.

[F15E_WSO]

Originally Posted by Rick W.

I have changed all my shooting Luger springs to the Wolff 38#, I think I am good to go for life with either 30 or 9mm caliber or nice wildcat.

Rick W If I can get you to pop over to this thread

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...t=31601&page=3

See if you think new Wolff #38 spring might help my problem. My concern is spring too weak, too much recoil and wear and tear on Toggle and Mech? Slamming it back etc. Shooting Fiocchi 7.65s and by all accounts too weak so maybe weaker spring is good idea.

Thanks

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by F15E_WSO

Rick W If I can get you to pop over to this thread

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...t=31601&page=3

See if you think new Wolff #38 spring might help my problem. My concern is spring too weak, too much recoil and wear and tear on Toggle and Mech? Slamming it back etc. Shooting Fiocchi 7.65s and by all accounts too weak so maybe weaker spring is good idea.

Thanks

Unless you measure the compression strength of both springs, you will not know if changing springs will help or hurt.

Without measurement it is trial and error.

One can measure the Wolf springs and find that the labeled rating has little to do with the actual strength of the spring in the package. So again hit and miss- I know I have measured the Wolf springs, they are not consistent. There is a thread or several on this board or the other one relating to mainsprings and Wolf springs included.

No one can say whether a spring change will solve your problem or make it worse- you will just have to experiment.

I know this does not help much, but that is the situation with mainsprings and particularly springs for the 7,65mm luger.

[Rick W.]

Hank,

I responded some earlier in your thread. Not a lot more to add really in a detailed visit.

The Luger mechanism has to have full movement during firing or issues usually occur from short stroking the action. The tape test as talked about on this forum can show relative movement of the toggle assembly during firing with a visual inspection of said tape. Light marks on the masking tape says the toggle is moving ok to me; no marks......says something is amiss, perhaps power of ammo, recoil spring, rail twists/springing etc etc......list is fairly large. Tape knocked off the pistol................usually weak spring or heavy duty ammo............will eventually beat the pistol.

Recoil spring replacement in the Luger is not an end all, cure all type of thing. Sometimes it is hard to figure just what the problem is, much less cure it.

When I mentioned that I change to Wolff 38# recoil springs in my Luger shooters, that is in my environment. I have a fondness for High Standard target guns as well as for the original Automags; I; out of habit change springs in those newly acquired because that is my own choice and works for me. I am also a fairly seasoned reloader which I think is an advantage to get a firearm to run, I can tailor the load to the particular pistol. I think...........my main shooting Lugers are in ok shape, smooth mechanicals; and I even have a fairly stout grip.

Wolff does make a 36# spring. I have never used one, so nothing worthwhile to offer on said spring here.

Lots of things in the Luger world that inhibits a particular pistol from working as they say. One thing I disagree with some on is using overly powerful ammo to make things work............beats the pistol to death and puts the user and folks to the side at risk.

I have no issues with the Wolff springs, mine are with the 38 versions(30 Luger, 9mmx19, and 7.65x19 wildcat) fwiw. There has been some discussion about custom built springs over the years here on this forum, but I am in the dark on that development. Would they be more better than the Wolff offerings?...............probably in some instances depending on who made them up. A guy like G.T. has the background in such, but he is kinda busy at times I hear.

So nothing here of any real use to you in a quick fix, guess I do not have the total package there.

[Rickybill]

See if you think new Wolff #38 spring might help my problem. My concern is spring too weak, too much recoil and wear and tear on Toggle and Mech? Slamming it back etc. Shooting Fiocchi 7.65s and by all accounts too weak so maybe weaker spring is good idea.

I'm using the action spring that was in my .30 when my dad got it some time in '60s.

If I load 85gr bullets at less than 1100fps, the gun short-strokes.
If I load at 1150, function is perfect, but there are signs of wear on the rear of the frame, the toggles, the toggle camming surfaces on the frame "ears", etc., that might appear excessive after fewer than 1000 rounds; can the line between too weak and too powerful be so slight?

I've installed the Wolff striker spring in my gun, but haven't messed with the action spring, as long as the gun is running.

[DavidJayUden]

Lube the heck out of it, grip it tightly during shooting, and use the lowest recoiling rounds that will run the gun correctly. Unless you are way overloaded that gun will outlast you.
Don't overthink it.
dju

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by Rickybill

I'm using the action spring that was in my .30 when my dad got it some time in '60s.

If I load 85gr bullets at less than 1100fps, the gun short-strokes.
If I load at 1150, function is perfect, but there are signs of wear on the rear of the frame, the toggles, the toggle camming surfaces on the frame "ears", etc., that might appear excessive after fewer than 1000 rounds; can the line between too weak and too powerful be so slight?

I've installed the Wolff striker spring in my gun, but haven't messed with the action spring, as long as the gun is running.

Yes, the line between too little and enough recoil is small!

I doubt you can discern any wear in the few rounds you have fired or after 1000.

Wear marks and even slight wear are "normal". Do be aware and consider that your are dealing with a 30+ lb spring in your pistol, with the same ammo that was used in the early 1900 leaf spring design, the spring with less than half the resistance of the coil spring set up. Which caused closure reliability problems, and is the reason for the coil spring coming into use.

I think you are worrying too much. JMHO.

PS: The wolf striker spring is stronger than it needs to be also, and the small tab on the spring retainer will experience excessive wear as a result, IMO and experience. it is very small in area and will benefit from use of the weakest spring that gives you reliable primer ignition; and frequent lubrication.
The original design strength was for "hard" military primers, and is not necessary for commercial primers. Something else to think about.

[F15E_WSO]

Thanks to all for the words and advice. I need to put more rounds through it, get more details and facts. Also key that I change one variable at a time. Will put the +150 rds of Fiocchi through it, wait for some PPU and see what that yields. I do NOT want to overpower the gun and cause excessive wear.
Cheers

[4 Scale]

High quality springs such as used as OEM in the Luger do not wear out progressively. I disagree that a properly functioning Luger should have the mainspring/springs replaced as a tune up. The Luger is a balanced system and replacing properly functioning parts can introduce changes that may reduce functionality. If anything Luger springs tend to be a bit too strong for the Winchester White Box or similar target ammo typically recommended for 9mm Lugers.

If you want to replace properly working old parts because you can/because the pistols are 'old', by that logic get a Glock.

I also cringed at the OP. I'm all for experimenting and finding new techniques and tools. But the chance for marring looks much greater with pliers than the traditional tool. With a little practice the traditional tool works well and doesn't marr. The traditional tool both compresses the spring and the little curve on the tool helps pull it out. I understand pliers compress the spring as well but lack a curve or other means to provide extractive pull. Pliers are therefore IMO inferior to the traditional tool.

As far as Fiocchi/weaker springs etc. etc. in .30 Lugers I've been there and done that. Fiochhi ammo is not powerful enough to operate most Luger actions correctly. Don't take my word for it, search the forums and many experienced collectors say the same thing. IMO it is a mistake to adjust mainsprings on a .30 Luger to try and improve cycling with Fiocchi, before testing with PPU or equivalent stronger ammo. It's unfortunate that PPU is nearly impossible to find right now, but that does not make spring modification a promising option.

[DonVoigt]

Now we have a (another) confusing thread with two different subjects!
Great example of "why not" to hijack a thread. JMHO.

[Eugen]

OP, here are pics of the Solomon spring tool that we are referencing:

[K.Wilhelm]

There are too many people to thank individually here for great advice and tips based on experience. Some of it goes back to "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"- good old common sense which seems to often be in short supply these days. Thanks all, Bill