my profile |
register |
faq |
search upload photo | donate | calendar |
06-14-2012, 12:30 PM | #1 |
User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Marco Island, Florida
Posts: 4,867
Thanks: 1,685
Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts
|
Police Luger Unit Mark
I was just shown a nice police Luger with the following Unit Mark;
L.Ar.185. This appears to be a Wiemar era commercial Luger. The only marks on the gun are the following; Proof: Eagle, Wa, Eagle. Eagle Proof on Barrel Serial number is 3313 u on frame and barrel. "13" on last toggle back. Toggle axle marked "13". No nitro proof, no manufacturer on toggle, no chamber marks. Matching wood bottom Mag 3313 (no u) and number 1 Sear safety present, magazine safety removed. Wood grips look correct, period but no marks inside Finish is original, (nice halos on barrel and unit marks) with only typical holster wear and some additional wear on the sideplate. Straw is strong on ejector, takedown and trigger, less so on safety but all appear original. Initially I need an answer to the unit mark. This gun will be for sale but I am looking for an honest valuation as soon as I get photos up. Thanks, gents! Last edited by alanint; 06-14-2012 at 01:42 PM. |
06-14-2012, 01:37 PM | #2 |
User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Marco Island, Florida
Posts: 4,867
Thanks: 1,685
Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts
|
More Pics...
|
06-14-2012, 01:41 PM | #3 |
User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Marco Island, Florida
Posts: 4,867
Thanks: 1,685
Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts
|
And last, a curious Colt style blued and numbered axle pin.
|
06-14-2012, 05:19 PM | #4 |
Patron
LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,429
Thanks: 67
Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts
|
Landjägerei Arnsberg.
__________________
Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com |
06-14-2012, 05:35 PM | #5 |
User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Marco Island, Florida
Posts: 4,867
Thanks: 1,685
Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts
|
Thanks, Don!
Rare? Desirable? Does the gun look all correct in your opinion? This belongs to a friend who may be selling. |
06-14-2012, 05:37 PM | #6 |
User
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,016
Thanks: 94
Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts
|
I like the 29 DWM's, I have one that is 1100 later than yours without gripstrap markings. It is both commercial and military marked.
SteveM |
06-14-2012, 08:55 PM | #7 |
Lifer
Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Mc Donough, GA.
Posts: 419
Thanks: 0
Thanked 222 Times in 96 Posts
|
Doug,
I have one 110 earlier than yours. Alas, no matching mag. Nice gun! Mike
__________________
MAGA Always!! NRA Benifactor, GCA |
The following member says Thank You to BogeyB for your post: |
06-15-2012, 12:08 AM | #8 |
Patron
LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,429
Thanks: 67
Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts
|
It looks good to me, especially with the matching mag. While I wouldn't call it rare, it is desirable (to me, at least --- I own one). See pp. 198-8 of HWIS for other examples.
__________________
Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com |
06-15-2012, 08:55 AM | #9 |
Lifer
Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA
Posts: 12,216
Thanks: 6,209
Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts
|
Is my police luger related
I wanted to submit mine for comparision..
|
The following member says Thank You to cirelaw for your post: |
06-15-2012, 10:37 AM | #10 |
User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Orygun
Posts: 4,243
Thanks: 118
Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts
|
Called a "Sneak" in marketing / collector parlance. A 1929 BKIW ( transition from DWM to Mauser) found in s, t, and u serial suffix with WaA66 proof. They are found with both, blank toggles, and DWM toggles.
The term "Sneak" was coined as a marketing ploy to add mystique. Supposedly produced without a date to keep the Allied Commission from knowing that Luger production had started again. The current general consensus is that they were simply assembled from parts in inventory, and no date was thought necessary. While not rare or scarce, but not extremely common, and desirable to unit mark collectors. I've seen them priced from $1400 to $2000+ based on condition, and scarcity of the Landjägerei unit mark district. Ron
__________________
I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said... |
The following member says Thank You to Ron Smith for your post: |
06-15-2012, 12:39 PM | #11 |
Lifer
Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA
Posts: 12,216
Thanks: 6,209
Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts
|
Thank You Ron. That make sence!
|
06-15-2012, 07:02 PM | #12 |
User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Marco Island, Florida
Posts: 4,867
Thanks: 1,685
Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts
|
Thank you, Ron. It will be sold and I needed a fair market value for the owner.
Where would you put this example within that range? I have no dog in the fight, just trying to help an old vet. |
06-15-2012, 07:50 PM | #13 |
Lifer
Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA
Posts: 12,216
Thanks: 6,209
Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts
|
You have a great opportunity
Your matching mag it proved this was probobly own by a Police Officer.The one I have was not as lucky. Instead you can make out an owner very light name. What history. Their values can only increase. Donald Maus and His sources has done so much to increase the collectablity of each piece yet often bypassed. Once 'Lugers At Random appeared a whole market appeared. Collectors feel more confortable with a Policeman then a nazi brand. Keep it. Add a police holster and your golden. Eric, Esq
|
06-15-2012, 08:35 PM | #14 |
User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Orygun
Posts: 4,243
Thanks: 118
Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts
|
Doug,
I sold one in very similar condition, without matching mag 2 or 3 years ago for $1795.00. Ron
__________________
I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said... |
06-15-2012, 11:58 PM | #15 |
User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Marco Island, Florida
Posts: 4,867
Thanks: 1,685
Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts
|
Thank you, Ron!!
|
06-16-2012, 08:31 AM | #16 |
User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Orygun
Posts: 4,243
Thanks: 118
Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts
|
You're welcome Doug...
__________________
I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said... |
06-17-2012, 06:59 PM | #17 |
User
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,894
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,288 Times in 426 Posts
|
Current collector designation is 29DWM. New commercial production made in 1929. In 1928 DWM accepted a contract to deliver a substantial number of pistols to the Riff tribe in Morocco. The Versailles treaty forbad the ecport of military wepons, so DWM assembled pistols destined for the Riff without a center toggle logo to disguise their origin.
The contract was neer delivered, and most of this production was obtained by the German police. They are found variously with commercial c/N proofs, commercial proofs with WaA66 Wafenamt acceptance stamps, and wth full Waffenamt acceptance and proof stamps but no c/N as with this example. This pistol was rebarrelled to 9mm between 1935-1938. --Dwight |
06-17-2012, 07:28 PM | #18 |
Lifer
Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA
Posts: 12,216
Thanks: 6,209
Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts
|
I Took A Picture of the cute little proof
Were they on all police guns?
|
06-17-2012, 08:15 PM | #19 |
User
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Box 240188, Douglas, Alaska, 99824
Posts: 463
Thanks: 0
Thanked 52 Times in 32 Posts
|
Dwight
What is the basis of your statement: "This pistol was rebarrelled to 9mm between 1935-1938." I must of missed the documentation that the 29 DWM was first manufactured (1929/early 1930) in .30 cal. and this barrel later changed out for a 9mm barrel. If this is correct some portion of the German police must have armed with .30 caliber Lugers for a few years. Jan |
06-17-2012, 08:38 PM | #20 |
User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Marco Island, Florida
Posts: 4,867
Thanks: 1,685
Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts
|
I'm no expert, (and the witness mark on this example is a tick off), But would they have installed a new barrel with the same serial number and suffix, in exactly the same font as the frame, as is the case here? And done it all those years after initial production?
Also, would there have been halos around the barrel serial number and suffix on a replacement barrel, as is also the case here? |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|