broom handle hammer not locking back

Jim Mac · 06-07-2015, 11:31 PM

I was at the local pawn shop and they got a broom handle mauser in. I was checking it out and it looks to be a mismatched mauser. Serial number on the bottom was 101xxx the top was 107xxx I cocked it and the hammer just falls, we messed with the safety and tb e hammer still would not lock back. Played with the trigger, safety, push the top end back and forth and the hammer still will not lock back. The price for the gun when tb ey thought was working was $799 with a repop stock/holster. It may have been buffed years ago. No blue left and repop grips. If tbey do get it working is the price fair? They said they will have someone look at it but im afraid they'll get it to **** and sell it once it **** but maybe not correctly fix it. If the rifling is decent what's a reasonable price for a Franken gun? Thank you. Jim

TheRomanhistorian · 06-08-2015, 01:49 AM

That's about what I'd pay with a repro stock and holster. Especially if there is rifling (even if relined). I wouldn't pay more than $1,000 though. That's for sure. I'm sure Alvin will chip in (I have a few Broomhandles but not the same level of knowledge he does) but maybe the hammer pin is worn or not engaging properly? It's the little wishbone shaped part.

Michael

alvin · 06-08-2015, 06:10 AM

Before chasing on that broken mixmaster in pawn shop, probably want to check this one out:

http://www.gunauction.com/buy/13417910

This one has a mismatched magazine floor. But that floor is not a moving part, so won't affect gun functioning.

Install a firing pin and safety lever, it will be fully functional. Aftermarket firing pins are available on gunbroker.com and ebay. Repro stock is flooding on ebay.

Of course, if this one goes too high, then return to pawn shop.

Jim Mac · 06-08-2015, 08:11 AM

Sorry about the poor spelling, im typing on my phone and between too small keyboard and auto correct, sometimes I go back and reread my posts and am amazed at the slop I post.
So $799 would be about the top price on the gun then? The sales guy told me that the gun did function and they had the hammer not locking back before. He was telling me he basically pushed the barrel back and forth while holding the hammer back etc until it worked. I think its got something worn and he just got lucky that they got it to work the one last time.
Im headed back this week and if its still there. Im going to ask that they cycle it at least 15-20 times to see if it keeps working. They said if it still acts up they will discount the price and sell it as a non functioning gun. The sales guy said to for them to pay a unsmith to work on it then sell it makes the liability to them go up not to mention eat into the profit. So we'll see. Thanks. Jim

alvin · 06-08-2015, 08:39 AM

Hammer not reliable is a serious safety issue. Much worse than pulling trigger but no bang is this -- you did not pull the trigger and it could bang at worst timing... how scary is that.... could kill someone in range. Probably can only treat it as a pile of parts. Some parts on it might still be usable.

kurusu · 06-08-2015, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

Hammer not reliable is a serious safety issue. Much worse than pulling trigger but no bang is this -- you did not pull the trigger and it could bang at worst timing... how scary is that.... could kill someone in range. Probably can only treat it as a pile of parts. Some parts on it might still be usable.

Or you can get a poor man's 712. It's already hardly manageable when you are expecting it. Imagine if it comes as a surprise.

sheepherder · 06-08-2015, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRomanhistorian

...maybe the hammer pin is worn or not engaging properly? It's the little wishbone shaped part.

"Sear spring & hammer pivot". Very important part; stay away from Numrich repros. Try to find an original. (I got one from Alvin years ago.)

Angus Magnus · 06-08-2015, 09:12 AM

I think you will find that patience pays off when buying broomhandles. Keep an eye on the auctions and you will see that there is no rhyme or reason to what people pay for in the sub $1000 range. Sometimes a bidding war will happen over a total piece of junk, and other times you can walk away the sole bidder on a decent matched shooter for $500-700.

Do not discount a shot out bore with a nice finish at a good price, you can get it relined for $200: http://www.redmansrifling.com/mauser.htm

alvin · 06-08-2015, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kurusu

Or you can get a poor man's 712. It's already hardly manageable when you are expecting it. Imagine if it comes as a surprise.

What is it? I have never heard this. From collecting point of view, I don't need to buy any C96 anymore. Current collection fits me well. But still buy and sell to generate some activity. Of course, if it's a very special one, I will consider.

alvin · 06-08-2015, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kurusu

Or you can get a poor man's 712. It's already hardly manageable when you are expecting it. Imagine if it comes as a surprise.

What is it? I have never heard this variation... well, from collecting point of view, I don't need to buy any C96 anymore. Still missing many rare variations, but current collection fits me well (I can only put so much into hobby anyway). But I still buy and sell some duplicates from time to time to generate some activity. Most transactions nowadays are towards this direction.

New love is FN 1900. This is an interesting pistol too. And price is still low.

Curss · 06-08-2015, 08:40 PM

The M712 is a select fire C96, I believe it was capable of full auto.

alvin · 06-08-2015, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curss

The M712 is a select fire C96, I believe it was capable of full auto.

I don't have it. It's very awkward for me to play something need special permit in this state. The state is not gun friendly. Only got a "714", and missing magazine.

CMR sells 10-round magazines. Claimed being original. But I did not see its condition, so, probably will wait a US seller. Saw quite a few of those magazines in the past, but short of supply currently.

If anyone has spare original Schnellfuer magazines in mint (or, at least excellent) condition for sale, I'd like to buy one.

Jim Mac · 06-08-2015, 08:56 PM

They didnt have a chance to have the smith look at it today. They said call wed. Or Thursday and if their gun guy wont or cant fix it they will price it as a non working gun. Ive got a mismatched broomhandle probably imported from china bored to a 9mm. This would be a way to get it back to a 7.63 and have a project to play with. I would have a functioning gun to compare it to. Jim

alanint · 06-08-2015, 09:57 PM

Keep in mind that you cannot legally attach a repro stock to a Broomhandle. Dumb reg. considering you can do this with a Luger Navy or Artillery.

CAP Black · 06-08-2015, 10:18 PM

I think you should be able to obtain that item for approx. $ 550 or so. Try for less.
Thanks
Jack

Jim Mac · 06-08-2015, 10:54 PM

I mentioned the sbr thing with the stock. It fell on deaf ears. Its like explaining 922 rules on AK47. Its a rule but pretty much nobody pays attention to it and bringing it up to a guy shooting a ak at the range will probably get you permanently booted from the range. Ill call back later this week and see what tbe price ends up at. A couple months ago they had a colt 1889 revolver missing a hammer and poor finish for $50. I picked it up got it .slyly functioning and got rid of it. I will keep up on the pistol. Hopefully Ill have a look at what I bought post. Jim

alvin · 06-08-2015, 11:01 PM

You can get a repro broomhandle stock for $30. ATF requires the C96 stock looks like original one. Translate into practical term, "roughly looks like an original one". So, don't attach a Luger style board-like stock to it.

DonVoigt · 06-09-2015, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

What is it? I have never heard this variation... well, from collecting point of view, I don't need to buy any C96 anymore. Still missing many rare variations, but current collection fits me well (I can only put so much into hobby anyway). But I still buy and sell some duplicates from time to time to generate some activity. Most transactions nowadays are towards this direction.

New love is FN 1900. This is an interesting pistol too. And price is still low.

Alvin,
a poor man's 712, is any broomhandle that has a problem that makes or allows it to fire "full auto"! As you know this will get you in trouble with the Feds as surely as a real one!

kurusu · 06-09-2015, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

I don't have it. It's very awkward for me to play something need special permit in this state. The state is not gun friendly. Only got a "714", and missing magazine.

CMR sells 10-round magazines. Claimed being original. But I did not see its condition, so, probably will wait a US seller. Saw quite a few of those magazines in the past, but short of supply currently.

If anyone has spare original Schnellfuer magazines in mint (or, at least excellent) condition for sale, I'd like to buy one.

Now is my turn to ask the questions.

What is a 714?

The M712 or M1932 is the selective fire version of the 1930 variant of the C96. It can shoot in semi auto mode or full auto. It's pretty much uncontrollable in full auto if you are not using the shoulder stock.

But thanks to Curss and DonVoigt you already know this.

alvin · 06-09-2015, 07:18 AM

That's right. Mauser has never assigned a name to "714". More commonly seen "712" was not called as "712" by Mauser either.

Selective firing "712" came from US importer Stoeger in 1930s. Stoeger called semi-auto only version "Genuine Mauser Twenty Shot 7.63 m/m Pistol". In 1980s, another US importer assigned "714" to their products which does look a few percent like Mauser. Since all these designations were not factory anyway, Navy Arms was so imaginative, plus "714" is a shorter name, it does not hurt to call it 714.

Being a rare variation too. Stoeger price was $100 in 1930s, coming with a 10-shot and a 20-shot magazine. Translating into today's dollar value, roughly $3600.

06-07-2015, 11:31 PM	#1
Jim Mac User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 261 Thanks: 2 Thanked 67 Times in 35 Posts	broom handle hammer not locking back I was at the local pawn shop and they got a broom handle mauser in. I was checking it out and it looks to be a mismatched mauser. Serial number on the bottom was 101xxx the top was 107xxx I cocked it and the hammer just falls, we messed with the safety and tb e hammer still would not lock back. Played with the trigger, safety, push the top end back and forth and the hammer still will not lock back. The price for the gun when tb ey thought was working was $799 with a repop stock/holster. It may have been buffed years ago. No blue left and repop grips. If tbey do get it working is the price fair? They said they will have someone look at it but im afraid they'll get it to ** and sell it once it ** but maybe not correctly fix it. If the rifling is decent what's a reasonable price for a Franken gun? Thank you. Jim

06-08-2015, 01:49 AM	#2
TheRomanhistorian User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 301 Thanks: 170 Thanked 88 Times in 64 Posts	That's about what I'd pay with a repro stock and holster. Especially if there is rifling (even if relined). I wouldn't pay more than $1,000 though. That's for sure. I'm sure Alvin will chip in (I have a few Broomhandles but not the same level of knowledge he does) but maybe the hammer pin is worn or not engaging properly? It's the little wishbone shaped part. Michael __________________ Michael Nos morituri te salutant - Supposed saying of the gladiators to the emperor ('We, who are about to die, salute you.') 'We are the lantern bearers, my friend; for us to keep something burning, to carry what light we can forward into the darkness and the wind' - From Rosemary Sutcliff's The Lantern Bearers

06-08-2015, 08:40 PM	#11
Curss User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 303 Thanks: 304 Thanked 98 Times in 75 Posts	The M712 is a select fire C96, I believe it was capable of full auto. __________________ -Chris

06-08-2015, 06:10 AM	#3
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Before chasing on that broken mixmaster in pawn shop, probably want to check this one out: http://www.gunauction.com/buy/13417910 This one has a mismatched magazine floor. But that floor is not a moving part, so won't affect gun functioning. Install a firing pin and safety lever, it will be fully functional. Aftermarket firing pins are available on gunbroker.com and ebay. Repro stock is flooding on ebay. Of course, if this one goes too high, then return to pawn shop.

06-08-2015, 08:11 AM	#4
Jim Mac User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 261 Thanks: 2 Thanked 67 Times in 35 Posts	Sorry about the poor spelling, im typing on my phone and between too small keyboard and auto correct, sometimes I go back and reread my posts and am amazed at the slop I post. So $799 would be about the top price on the gun then? The sales guy told me that the gun did function and they had the hammer not locking back before. He was telling me he basically pushed the barrel back and forth while holding the hammer back etc until it worked. I think its got something worn and he just got lucky that they got it to work the one last time. Im headed back this week and if its still there. Im going to ask that they cycle it at least 15-20 times to see if it keeps working. They said if it still acts up they will discount the price and sell it as a non functioning gun. The sales guy said to for them to pay a unsmith to work on it then sell it makes the liability to them go up not to mention eat into the profit. So we'll see. Thanks. Jim

06-08-2015, 08:39 AM	#5
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Hammer not reliable is a serious safety issue. Much worse than pulling trigger but no bang is this -- you did not pull the trigger and it could bang at worst timing... how scary is that.... could kill someone in range. Probably can only treat it as a pile of parts. Some parts on it might still be usable.

06-08-2015, 09:12 AM	#8
Angus Magnus User Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Miami Posts: 133 Thanks: 8 Thanked 22 Times in 16 Posts	I think you will find that patience pays off when buying broomhandles. Keep an eye on the auctions and you will see that there is no rhyme or reason to what people pay for in the sub $1000 range. Sometimes a bidding war will happen over a total piece of junk, and other times you can walk away the sole bidder on a decent matched shooter for $500-700. Do not discount a shot out bore with a nice finish at a good price, you can get it relined for $200: http://www.redmansrifling.com/mauser.htm

06-08-2015, 08:56 PM	#13
Jim Mac User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 261 Thanks: 2 Thanked 67 Times in 35 Posts	They didnt have a chance to have the smith look at it today. They said call wed. Or Thursday and if their gun guy wont or cant fix it they will price it as a non working gun. Ive got a mismatched broomhandle probably imported from china bored to a 9mm. This would be a way to get it back to a 7.63 and have a project to play with. I would have a functioning gun to compare it to. Jim

06-08-2015, 09:57 PM	#14
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Keep in mind that you cannot legally attach a repro stock to a Broomhandle. Dumb reg. considering you can do this with a Luger Navy or Artillery.

06-08-2015, 10:18 PM	#15
CAP Black User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Fairmont, WV Right here in Mountaineer country and God's country Posts: 767 Thanks: 100 Thanked 168 Times in 96 Posts	I think you should be able to obtain that item for approx. $ 550 or so. Try for less. Thanks Jack

06-08-2015, 10:54 PM	#16
Jim Mac User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 261 Thanks: 2 Thanked 67 Times in 35 Posts	I mentioned the sbr thing with the stock. It fell on deaf ears. Its like explaining 922 rules on AK47. Its a rule but pretty much nobody pays attention to it and bringing it up to a guy shooting a ak at the range will probably get you permanently booted from the range. Ill call back later this week and see what tbe price ends up at. A couple months ago they had a colt 1889 revolver missing a hammer and poor finish for $50. I picked it up got it .slyly functioning and got rid of it. I will keep up on the pistol. Hopefully Ill have a look at what I bought post. Jim

06-08-2015, 11:01 PM	#17
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	You can get a repro broomhandle stock for $30. ATF requires the C96 stock looks like original one. Translate into practical term, "roughly looks like an original one". So, don't attach a Luger style board-like stock to it.

06-09-2015, 07:18 AM	#20
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	That's right. Mauser has never assigned a name to "714". More commonly seen "712" was not called as "712" by Mauser either. Selective firing "712" came from US importer Stoeger in 1930s. Stoeger called semi-auto only version "Genuine Mauser Twenty Shot 7.63 m/m Pistol". In 1980s, another US importer assigned "714" to their products which does look a few percent like Mauser. Since all these designations were not factory anyway, Navy Arms was so imaginative, plus "714" is a shorter name, it does not hurt to call it 714. Being a rare variation too. Stoeger price was $100 in 1930s, coming with a 10-shot and a 20-shot magazine. Translating into today's dollar value, roughly $3600.