G Luger re-straw ?

[Bill Sipple]

Hello,
I am new to the forum so forgive me if this has been answered somewhere. I have searched quite a bit.
I have a 1935 G gun with 5775 serial number, all matching, including 1 matching mag. It is really nice condition with bright crisp bore. But, it has clearly been re-blued, probably brushed because the numbers and markings are sharp. I am told some Russian captures were done this way. Also, the straw colors are gone.
So the question is: should I bother re-strawing? Does that affect value, or is value already shot because of re-blue ?
I have the gun completely apart, down to the last pin, because I have to clean all the grease and old oil out of it. So removing the parts is done. I have seen countless straw procedures. Do the Luger Forum experts recommend I do this? I can take pics when I get home.......but I'm guessing you don't need them for the answer here.
Thanks in advance !
Bill

[Edward Tinker]

Bill, welcome to the forum. I never, ever take a luger completely apart, but many members feel compelled to do so

Even if it had not been reblued, many folks will say a restraw will not hurt the value. Other, purist types would say leave it alone. Many times the russian 'dip' will come off.

Pictures are a must, afterall you brought it up?

I would think that if you want to restraw, go ahead and do so, there is some guidance here on proper color / time etc.

Ed

[DavidJayUden]

Boy that is kind'a tough. Normally the response would be an emphatic NO, but since it has been re-finished already it is a bit less clear.
I'm leaning toward suggesting that you leave it alone for now.
Re-straw coloring is a relatively easy process that can always be done later.
Can you send some good photos of the pieces, and areas that make you believe that it has been refinished?
Given the rarity of the G date, it could be that it is a candidate for professional restoration, but then that all depends on the current finish and the amount of prep. damage that has already been done.
Welcome aboard, and I look forward to seeing photos.
dju

[Bill Sipple]

Thanks guys. I will attempt to get some good pics and post them. Since the gun is completely apart now I suppose that will be pretty easy ! I could not move the toggle, and discovered that some old oil had solidified and made movement nearly impossible. That's why the complete tear-down. This is probably because gun is in my basement where its about 50 degrees ! On the plus side, I was careful, and now I know every piece in this Luger.
So I will clean it up, and warm it up.
Appreciate all the help.

[Sergio Natali]

Congratulations on your Luger, aaaaaand to your efforts, taking completely apart a Luger is something that I've never even considered.

Sergio

[no4mk1t]

Originally Posted by luger.parabellum

Congratulations on your Luger, aaaaaand to your efforts, taking completely apart a Luger is something that I've never even considered.

Sergio

Try it sometime, it's not as complicated as you think. I'm brand new to Lugers, and I've had mine apart down to the safety lever, (pin frozen, need to soak) and the main spring. It's quite ingenious how everything fits together, a machinists nightmare to make for sure, but ingenious and elegant.

[Bill Sipple]

I have made some poor pics, but at least you'll see the condition of the frame and toggle. There is minor pitting on the upper left frame which is blued over, but not so thick as to hide it. The interior of the frame has very thin blue as well. So a re-dip or re-brush for sure. I am sorry the pics are dark. You can see the "G" though, and the Mauser "42" on the toggle. Some of these are marked "S/42" so I wonder if mine has any significance ? Everything is serialized correctly to either "5775" or "75". Even the firing pin. The serial numbers are clear and not muddied by excess blue. So have a look, criticize, and I'll see if I can set up better pics. Also, I will not re-assemble the gun until I have determined whether or not to re-straw. So far, you guys (experts) are split on this !
Thanks for all the help.

[alanint]

For me, a gun that was originally manufactured with strawed parts should always have them, regardless of a refinish.

It just seems right and it is easy to do.

[lugerholsterrepair]

I'm with Doug here..For me, a gun that was originally manufactured with strawed parts should always have them, regardless of a refinish.

[rhuff]

I also agree with Doug. I needed to restraw a mag catch, and read the sticky on strawing, and gave it a go. It turned out great. Of course if anyone would have seen me sitting in front of my kitchen oven, staring through the door glass waiting for the correct color to appear, might think that I had gone buggy!!

[wlyon]

All G dates from the factory were S/42. This must have been changed out during the refinish. I would redo the straw. No reason not to. Bill

[DavidJayUden]

Well, Drs, do we concur that the gun has been refinished? Some of the trim on the lower looks a bit rounded, but the paint and wear arount the safety looks unmolested.

And the toggle is a replacement with the correct #? Are there any known exceptions to the S/42 vs. 42 code?

Can we get some close-ups, including the frame numbers?

But regardless, I guess it is safe to go ahead and straw the correct small parts, but don't go overboard. Nothing looks cheesier than too many strawed parts (IMHO).

dju

[Sergio Natali]

I would have the straw redone too, mainly because it's a "G" Luger.

Sergio

[alanint]

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

Well, Drs, do we concur that the gun has been refinished? Some of the trim on the lower looks a bit rounded, but the paint and wear arount the safety looks unmolested.

And the toggle is a replacement with the correct #? Are there any known exceptions to the S/42 vs. 42 code?

Can we get some close-ups, including the frame numbers?

But regardless, I guess it is safe to go ahead and straw the correct small parts, but don't go overboard. Nothing looks cheesier than too many strawed parts (IMHO).

dju

David, a G date that has blued parts where they should be strawed is by definition are refinished gun.
I also agree with Bill that the toggle is a swap, possibly period, as it has been numbered to match.

[Bill Sipple]

Well OK it looks like I will do the re-straw. Might take awhile for wife to be out of house when I use oven. I am puzzled by the correct toggle serial number without the "S" on the top. Could the German's have done this and re-serialized without the "S" ? I know there could be some forced matched parts with some other old rifles I have. The front part of the toggle piece where the firing pin fits is serialized with a matching "75" as well, and so is the firing pin, which is still "in the white". Its hard for me to get good photos of these pieces, but I'll try. Also I should mention the extractor claw which is removable above tiny spring also has the correct "75" on it, and seems to have the exact finish level and quality of the surrounding metal.
Finally, do you guys know of a really good Luger reference book out there ? And also Mauser C96, which I am also looking at ?
Thanks for all your help !
Bill

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by Bill Sipple

Well OK it looks like I will do the re-straw. Might take awhile for wife to be out of house when I use oven. I am puzzled by the correct toggle serial number without the "S" on the top. Could the German's have done this and re-serialized without the "S" ? I know there could be some forced matched parts with some other old rifles I have. The front part of the toggle piece where the firing pin fits is serialized with a matching "75" as well, and so is the firing pin, which is still "in the white". Its hard for me to get good photos of these pieces, but I'll try. Also I should mention the extractor claw which is removable above tiny spring also has the correct "75" on it, and seems to have the exact finish level and quality of the surrounding metal.
Finally, do you guys know of a really good Luger reference book out there ? And also Mauser C96, which I am also looking at ?
Thanks for all your help !
Bill

Not so strange. There's lots of parts around with those same last two digits, of course most of them are in the right pistol.
If the replaced part was from an S/42 it would be harder (but not impossible since the font changed over the years) to find out it had been replaced.

[Bill Sipple]

Well my original topic was strawing and you guys answered that, but now I'm more than just a bit interested in the "42" on the toggle versus the "S/42" which was on all old "G" Lugers. Did some digging and found a "supposedly" matching serial number "G" Luger with only "byf" on the front toggle, that had been sold at auction. So here are 2 possibilities for you experts to ponder:

First, we know my Luger was refinished. Apparently Mauser did take some guns in and refinish them in the early 40's. So a factory refinish ? This would explain the factory-quality numbering on the "replacement" toggle, and maybe also the loss of straw, since after 1937 Mauser quit strawing Lugers. Also, Mauser was using "42", "S/42" and "Mauser" banner after 1937, and "byf" after 1941.

Second, could it be a case of a "42" toggle straight from the factory, for a few guns ? Reason I ask is that it turns out that Mauser was given permission to use "42" in addition to "S/42" beginning of 1936. I know Lugers are notorious for oddball markings and production. Is it possible my "G" was made near the end of the year and so wound up with a toggle from the next production ?

Or it could be faked ! But if so, its a terrific job. I'm going with the Mauser factory refinish theory for now.

Thanks again for all your help. My next step is to get close-up photos of the various stampings and proofs. This might help. I can barely see them with my 60 yo eyes, even with reading glasses.

[wlyon]

S42 changed to 42 in the middle of the 1939 production. No 42 code before then. Byf started in 1941 to end of production. As for the same number. All someone needed was a toggle with the same last two digits. Not all that difficult to find. Who knows for sure but facts are facts. Should make a great shooter but not a high end collectible. Bill

[Bill Sipple]

OK thanks Bill. I was never under the impression that this would be a high end find.....and I'm always on the lookout for a better piece. I am attaching 3 more photos showing the 3 parts of the toggle, and the "42" plus the serial numbered "75"(gun is "5775"). Also on the inside of the toggle are 2 marks: one looks like a number "3" and the other is just too small a proof for me to tell, but perhaps you guys know. These stamps are on both toggle parts, excluding the firing pin holder (for lack of a better word). Maybe these marks designate a refinish of some sort. But now we're getting into identity which is off course, so I will go ahead and re-straw and eventually post the results.
Thanks everyone for all the help.
Bill

[wlyon]

The inside marks are inspectors marks. Bill