1915 Chromed Erfurt- Questions and Pictures

ViciousOutlaw · 02-26-2011, 10:26 PM

Hello all,

My mother picked up a luger a couple of years ago and recently gifted it to me. Problem is that sometime in its life it was chromed and not well. My goal is to de chrome the gun and have it re blued.

Firstly I was wondering, should the gun be salt blued or hot blued? If you look closely at the bottom of the barrel you will see a s/42 between the SN and 883. Could the "original barrel" not be original? The proof mark seems to be right and the SN font does see to match.

Secondly, what parts should be strawed or left in the white?

Third, I am having troubles disassembling the breech lock assembly, side plate, and removing the recoil spring. Any suggestions gentlemen?

Fourth, I think the magazine is original but not sure. At some point someone thought it would be cool to replace the mag bottom with an aftermarket pearl/plastic one. Should the magazine be the color it is or should I also have it de chromed? and where should I drill the hole for the replacement wood bottom that I bought? The pearl/plastic bottom's hole was not done well and does not fit snuggly with the bottom of the magazine.

Finally, the locking bolt was broken at some point. Any ideas where I can find another locking bolt marked 86?

Thanks for all the help as well as a thank you to whoever posted the how to videos on wonderhowto.com. If you need more pictures feel free to ask.

sheepherder · 02-26-2011, 10:49 PM

...Someone *chromed* an Erfurt!!!...

Edward Tinker · 02-26-2011, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

...Someone *chromed* an Erfurt!!!...

yes and the chromed / nickled ones I have had (and that is about 10 or s0), almost always are completely matching..

Chrome and nickle is not the easiest to get off, thus why you find many guns heavily buffed, from what I understand. The plating likes to stick in odd places, even if you can correctly deplate it....

Ed

paid4c4 · 02-27-2011, 09:36 AM

A good chrome shop will be able to completely de-chrome your pistol and it should accept the new finish and look correct. Here is a picture of a Remington Rand 1911 which was chrome and I had it de-chromed and correctly parkerized. Good luck with your project.
Bill

TennBill2 · 02-27-2011, 10:39 AM

Bought this long ago! Never thought of refinishing it. Godd or bad it's part of its history.....IMO. I think plating was widely practice in the '20's era. Have an old S & W plated way back.

lugerholsterrepair · 02-27-2011, 11:02 AM

and where should I drill the hole for the replacement wood bottom that I bought?

Early mags had their own nickle coating. I would leave the mag alone. You will find it very difficult to install a wood bottom properly. If you are going to go to the trouble and expense of restoring this pistol have GT in Phoenix do it for you correctly.

ViciousOutlaw · 02-28-2011, 02:19 PM

That 1911 looks beautiful Bill!

So the magazine has the correct finish. Check.

Anyone know about the s/42 marked under the barrel? Was this common for ww1 lugers that reentered service?

Also if anyone can give me the run down on how to disassemble the breechlock group I would be indebted to you.

Thanks again.

azrael_cervale · 03-02-2011, 12:36 AM

The Nickel/Chrome treatment seems to be fairly common. I just bought my first Luger (probably paid too much) and it is a chromed/nickel 1912 Erfurt. I'm thinking about have it dechromed, reblued and barrel replaced to make it a shooter. Original barrel is pretty beat inside. I was blinded by the pretty gun and wasnt completely objective in my assessment.

Does anyone know a good Gunsmith in Washington state with experience with Lugers?

Edward Tinker · 03-02-2011, 01:13 AM

Personally, I am not a anti-chrome / anti-nickle guy, it is part of the guns history. It caught your eye as a pretty gun, why de-chrome it and change that?

The money spent de-chroming, rebluing and putting in a new barrel, you might as well buy a 2nd shooter luger. Just buy one more for what you are looking for?

Sometimes that rough bores shoot pretty good BTW

Ed

azrael_cervale · 03-02-2011, 08:30 AM

Well like I said this is my first Luger and I just bought it, yesterday in fact. It has a few spots that i think are rust coming through from nicks in the chrome, and i'm worried they spread and/or get worse. It seems like the gun wasn't buffed or anything before chroming there is a section that clearly shows rust pitting from when the gun was blue that has been chromed over. So I guess my reasons are two fold, one to save the gun from deterioration and two to bring it back to what it was. Alot of this will depend on the costs involved, I don't have alot of money to put into it so if the costs are too high i'll probably sell it and look for another in shooting condition, lately when I do see a Luger for sale it is marked very high ($1000+) and not that great condition.

I will try shooting the barrel as is though. Thanks.

I'll try to get some pics up tonight. Should I start a new thread? I don't mean to hijack this one.

ViciousOutlaw · 03-02-2011, 02:19 PM

So I found a guy who will dechrome and rust blue it for about $200. That price seem fair?

azrael_cervale · 03-02-2011, 02:27 PM

Yeah sounds like a fair price. Where is he and how would I need to handle the shipment to/from?

I started a thread here with pics.
http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=25721

gozrula · 03-12-2011, 07:10 PM

Am I missing something here, or isn’t the most significant thing about this poor unfortunate chromed Erfurt the fact that it has an original chamber date stamp of 1915.

This gun appears to be matching; at least from the parts we can see # 9186. Toggle has an 86. If this is legit, this is extremely rare and worthy of a full on restoration. There has never been any authentic examples reported.

Ron Smith · 03-12-2011, 07:58 PM

Note the "S/42" stamp between the barrel SN and the bore gauge. This was an armorer repair or rebuild post 1934. It would be hard to prove that this is a 1915 Erfurt. It would be debunked by advanced collectors as a rework.

GI's often had their war trophies plated in Germany at the end of the war. It could be done for the price of a few packs of Lucky Strikes.

As far as having it stripped and refinished for $200. I would be very careful. You could end up with a refinished gun of even less value. A good and correct rust blue refinish should cost much more than $200.

Ron

ViciousOutlaw · 03-13-2011, 01:47 PM

Sorry for my lack of firearms finish knowledge. He is planning on hot bluing it for $200. Would yall advise against that?

George Anderson · 03-13-2011, 03:14 PM

The 1915 dated Erfurt is neither rare, valuable nor an Erfurt. It is a parts gun and not, in my opinion, worth any further investment. Leave it nickled and enjoy shooting it.

ViciousOutlaw · 03-13-2011, 06:40 PM

Forgive me for my ignorance George but my understanding is that when a gun has all matching numbers it is considered original. While my pictures do not show all of the numbered parts all parts do match. How can you be so sure that it is a parts gun?

George Anderson · 03-13-2011, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ViciousOutlaw

Forgive me for my ignorance George but my understanding is that when a gun has all matching numbers it is considered original. While my pictures do not show all of the numbered parts all parts do match. How can you be so sure that it is a parts gun?

First of all there are no known Erfurts dated 1915; in 1915 Erfurt was overwhelmed by government orders for KAR98's and no 1915 contracts or orders were given. The barrel you show is marked S42 and was installed after 1934. I can assure you that with a 1915/1920 chamber date and without an artillery cut the reciever was made by DWM. It is a nonmatching gun as far as collectors go. It may have been renumbered and matched in the 1920's or 30's but collectors would not consider this an original matching piece. Save your money and enjoy what you have.

ViciousOutlaw · 03-13-2011, 09:40 PM

That seems to clear things up George thanks. However, I do find it odd that the German army would go to such lengths to ensure that the lugers numbers all matched. Are you aware of any reason for this?

George Anderson · 03-14-2011, 07:39 AM

The fact that it has a 1920 property mark indicates that it was a Weimar era reissue. The S42 marked barrel was added during the Nazi era. The nickle finish is fairly common and most were probably thus enhanced by G.I.s returning from service overseas in the 1940's. Given these points it was quite likely assembled from parts in Germany after WWI and kept in service by the Germans through WWII. The nickle finish is part of its history and I would leave it alone.

Only if the pistol were an extremely rare one such as a 1910 dated Erfurt would I bother with restoration. In the case of the 1915 dated pistol above all restoration will do is add to your investment cost but do nothing to enhance collector value.

02-26-2011, 10:26 PM	#1
ViciousOutlaw User Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 14 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1915 Chromed Erfurt- Questions and Pictures Hello all, My mother picked up a luger a couple of years ago and recently gifted it to me. Problem is that sometime in its life it was chromed and not well. My goal is to de chrome the gun and have it re blued. Firstly I was wondering, should the gun be salt blued or hot blued? If you look closely at the bottom of the barrel you will see a s/42 between the SN and 883. Could the "original barrel" not be original? The proof mark seems to be right and the SN font does see to match. Secondly, what parts should be strawed or left in the white? Third, I am having troubles disassembling the breech lock assembly, side plate, and removing the recoil spring. Any suggestions gentlemen? Fourth, I think the magazine is original but not sure. At some point someone thought it would be cool to replace the mag bottom with an aftermarket pearl/plastic one. Should the magazine be the color it is or should I also have it de chromed? and where should I drill the hole for the replacement wood bottom that I bought? The pearl/plastic bottom's hole was not done well and does not fit snuggly with the bottom of the magazine. Finally, the locking bolt was broken at some point. Any ideas where I can find another locking bolt marked 86? Thanks for all the help as well as a thank you to whoever posted the how to videos on wonderhowto.com. If you need more pictures feel free to ask. Attached Thumbnails

02-26-2011, 10:49 PM	#2
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	...Someone chromed an Erfurt!!!... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

02-27-2011, 10:39 AM	#5
TennBill2 RIP Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 101 Thanks: 0 Thanked 17 Times in 6 Posts	Nickled 1918 Erfurt! Bought this long ago! Never thought of refinishing it. Godd or bad it's part of its history.....IMO. I think plating was widely practice in the '20's era. Have an old S & W plated way back. Attached Images

02-27-2011, 11:02 AM	#6
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,852 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	and where should I drill the hole for the replacement wood bottom that I bought? Early mags had their own nickle coating. I would leave the mag alone. You will find it very difficult to install a wood bottom properly. If you are going to go to the trouble and expense of restoring this pistol have GT in Phoenix do it for you correctly. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-02-2011, 01:13 AM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,911 Thanks: 1,987 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	Personally, I am not a anti-chrome / anti-nickle guy, it is part of the guns history. It caught your eye as a pretty gun, why de-chrome it and change that? The money spent de-chroming, rebluing and putting in a new barrel, you might as well buy a 2nd shooter luger. Just buy one more for what you are looking for? Sometimes that rough bores shoot pretty good BTW Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-27-2011, 09:36 AM	#4
paid4c4 User Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Northern Kentucky Posts: 62 Thanks: 1 Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts	A good chrome shop will be able to completely de-chrome your pistol and it should accept the new finish and look correct. Here is a picture of a Remington Rand 1911 which was chrome and I had it de-chromed and correctly parkerized. Good luck with your project. Bill

02-28-2011, 02:19 PM	#7
ViciousOutlaw User Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 14 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	That 1911 looks beautiful Bill! So the magazine has the correct finish. Check. Anyone know about the s/42 marked under the barrel? Was this common for ww1 lugers that reentered service? Also if anyone can give me the run down on how to disassemble the breechlock group I would be indebted to you. Thanks again.

03-02-2011, 12:36 AM	#8
azrael_cervale User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	The Nickel/Chrome treatment seems to be fairly common. I just bought my first Luger (probably paid too much) and it is a chromed/nickel 1912 Erfurt. I'm thinking about have it dechromed, reblued and barrel replaced to make it a shooter. Original barrel is pretty beat inside. I was blinded by the pretty gun and wasnt completely objective in my assessment. Does anyone know a good Gunsmith in Washington state with experience with Lugers?

03-02-2011, 08:30 AM	#10
azrael_cervale User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Well like I said this is my first Luger and I just bought it, yesterday in fact. It has a few spots that i think are rust coming through from nicks in the chrome, and i'm worried they spread and/or get worse. It seems like the gun wasn't buffed or anything before chroming there is a section that clearly shows rust pitting from when the gun was blue that has been chromed over. So I guess my reasons are two fold, one to save the gun from deterioration and two to bring it back to what it was. Alot of this will depend on the costs involved, I don't have alot of money to put into it so if the costs are too high i'll probably sell it and look for another in shooting condition, lately when I do see a Luger for sale it is marked very high ($1000+) and not that great condition. I will try shooting the barrel as is though. Thanks. I'll try to get some pics up tonight. Should I start a new thread? I don't mean to hijack this one.

03-02-2011, 02:19 PM	#11
ViciousOutlaw User Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 14 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	So I found a guy who will dechrome and rust blue it for about $200. That price seem fair?

03-02-2011, 02:27 PM	#12
azrael_cervale User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Yeah sounds like a fair price. Where is he and how would I need to handle the shipment to/from? I started a thread here with pics. http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=25721

03-12-2011, 07:10 PM	#13
gozrula User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Bay Area, California Posts: 15 Thanks: 10 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Am I missing something here, or isn’t the most significant thing about this poor unfortunate chromed Erfurt the fact that it has an original chamber date stamp of 1915. This gun appears to be matching; at least from the parts we can see # 9186. Toggle has an 86. If this is legit, this is extremely rare and worthy of a full on restoration. There has never been any authentic examples reported.

03-12-2011, 07:58 PM	#14
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Note the "S/42" stamp between the barrel SN and the bore gauge. This was an armorer repair or rebuild post 1934. It would be hard to prove that this is a 1915 Erfurt. It would be debunked by advanced collectors as a rework. GI's often had their war trophies plated in Germany at the end of the war. It could be done for the price of a few packs of Lucky Strikes. As far as having it stripped and refinished for $200. I would be very careful. You could end up with a refinished gun of even less value. A good and correct rust blue refinish should cost much more than $200. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

03-13-2011, 01:47 PM	#15
ViciousOutlaw User Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 14 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Sorry for my lack of firearms finish knowledge. He is planning on hot bluing it for $200. Would yall advise against that?

03-13-2011, 03:14 PM	#16
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,772 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	The 1915 dated Erfurt is neither rare, valuable nor an Erfurt. It is a parts gun and not, in my opinion, worth any further investment. Leave it nickled and enjoy shooting it.

03-13-2011, 06:40 PM	#17
ViciousOutlaw User Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 14 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Forgive me for my ignorance George but my understanding is that when a gun has all matching numbers it is considered original. While my pictures do not show all of the numbered parts all parts do match. How can you be so sure that it is a parts gun?

03-13-2011, 09:40 PM	#19
ViciousOutlaw User Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 14 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	That seems to clear things up George thanks. However, I do find it odd that the German army would go to such lengths to ensure that the lugers numbers all matched. Are you aware of any reason for this?

03-14-2011, 07:39 AM	#20
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,772 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	The fact that it has a 1920 property mark indicates that it was a Weimar era reissue. The S42 marked barrel was added during the Nazi era. The nickle finish is fairly common and most were probably thus enhanced by G.I.s returning from service overseas in the 1940's. Given these points it was quite likely assembled from parts in Germany after WWI and kept in service by the Germans through WWII. The nickle finish is part of its history and I would leave it alone. Only if the pistol were an extremely rare one such as a 1910 dated Erfurt would I bother with restoration. In the case of the 1915 dated pistol above all restoration will do is add to your investment cost but do nothing to enhance collector value.