done lurking

John Gunman · 05-12-2004, 03:11 PM

I've been lurking for awhile. I have a 6 inch mixmaster. 41 is stamped over the barrel & 42 on the toggle. Old reblue that is just starting to turn plum on the right side below the toggle. I bought it at the Portland gunshow a number of years ago for $450 as a shooter. Right now I'm trying to get it to shoot more than once without a stovepipe type of jam. Any ideas as to where to start?

Thor · 05-12-2004, 03:31 PM

springs......ejector..........extractor. That is what I would check first. What ammo are you shooting? Is the main spring strong, is the magazine spring strong?

Dwight Gruber · 05-12-2004, 09:35 PM

John,

Aside from the barrel, are the serial numbers matching? According to Still ("Third Reich Lugers") there were only about 7,000 chamber-date 41, code 42 Lugers manufactured. You may have a more respectable Luger than you know.

--Dwight

John Gunman · 05-14-2004, 04:30 PM

thanks for replys. The springs have been replace with a Wolfs set. the original extractor had a chip on one side & its been replased. Managed to break the ejector & replaced it. Don't have any factory mags but do have a Macgar. Polished the chamber. What really causes me to pause, is the ejected brass has a pie shaped scratch or gouge on the mouth.

Dwight Gruber · 05-14-2004, 09:29 PM

John,

Can you post a picture of the marked case mouth?

--Dwight

John Gunman · 05-15-2004, 02:29 PM

great minds think alike. Now if I can figure out my sons web cam I'll post a picture of a case mouth.

Morris Gardner · 05-15-2004, 11:21 PM

Mag lips might be spread in front. Give them a hug and try again.

John Gunman · 05-16-2004, 01:01 PM

Checked on serial numbers & found 4 differant ones. yep mix master. will check out the mag feed lips. I do have a picture now I need to figure out how to get it here. Thanks.

Vlim · 05-16-2004, 01:18 PM

Hi John,

That pie shape is also present on ejected cases of my VoPo. It has a DWM-frame/toggle with a 1936 Mauser receiver and headspace between toggle and chamber is a bit wide.

It does however extract S&B factory ammo well, but sometimes the extractor slips over the case rim.

John Sabato · 05-17-2004, 10:54 AM

John, the photo posting tutorial in the top entry in the Site Help & Feedback forum...

Welcome to the Lugerforum.

John Gunman · 05-17-2004, 07:34 PM

Ok I'll give this a try.

After much thinking & shade tree monkey wrenching I figured out the the gouge is at about 10:00 with the extractor at 12:00. My thinking is that the ejector is throwing the brass to the left side of the frame & scrapping an edge.

Dwight Gruber · 05-18-2004, 03:21 AM

John,

The marks on your brass looked somehow familiar, I picked up a couple of cases sitting on my desk and, sure enough, they exhibited the same marks. I shoot three or four different Lugers, and I didn't know for sure which gun the cases came from but I had a suspicion.

So I went to the range this evening, and did some experimenting. I shot a 1917 LP-08, a 1936 S/42 (my regular shooting gun) and my 5" custom Luger. The LP-08 ejected perfect cases; the S/42 seemed to have just the hint of a marking, but only sometimes; and the custom gun produced severe marks as you show above, every shot. As I suspected.

I marked a couple of cases, and inserted them single-shot into the chamber, mark at the extractor, and shot them. The case-mouth gouges appeared 90-degrees anti-clockwise from the extractor, that is, directly opposite the ejector.

Here's the experiment I performed upon returning home--try it yourself, you will see exactly what is going on.

Dismount the receiver group from the frame, insert an -empty- cartridge case into the chamber, and close the breech. Pull the toggle back very slowly. As the base of the cartridge case contacts the ejector, you will see it rotate--yaw--to the left. You should see it actually move into the barrel extension cut for the breechblock slide. Continue to pull the toggle back, and the ejector will push the case out of the breechblock face and it will fall out the bottom of the of the receiver.

Now put the pistol back together, insert the empty case into the chamber again, and close the breech. Put another -empty- case into a magazine, insert the magazine into the gun, and make the experiment again. You will find, this time, that the presence of the next shell in the magazine (or perhaps the magazine follower itself, after the last shot) is what actually pushes the spent shell upward.

If the upward motion occurs before the case mouth clears the receiver cut, the case will contact the inside of the receiver rail and this scrape will occur.

--Dwight

Thor · 05-18-2004, 08:08 AM

John, didnt see where you said you replaced the magazine spring. Is it strong. Are all the cases ejecting okay other than being marked? Is the hold open locking open each time? If the case scraping is taking up much of the energy the receiver may not be going back far enough. If you have a weak magazine spring, you will almost always have feed jams,

John Gunman · 05-18-2004, 02:14 PM

Dwight-I did the same experiment as you(great minds do think alike.lol) I ran my fingernail along the left side rails & found some very sharp edges. Which now explains how the spent case had a burr on them. I polished the sharpness off.
Thor-no I haven't replaced the mag springs. That will be my next move.
Thanks all

05-12-2004, 03:11 PM	#1
John Gunman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Lake Oswego, Oregon Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	done lurking I've been lurking for awhile. I have a 6 inch mixmaster. 41 is stamped over the barrel & 42 on the toggle. Old reblue that is just starting to turn plum on the right side below the toggle. I bought it at the Portland gunshow a number of years ago for $450 as a shooter. Right now I'm trying to get it to shoot more than once without a stovepipe type of jam. Any ideas as to where to start?

05-12-2004, 03:31 PM	#2
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	springs......ejector..........extractor. That is what I would check first. What ammo are you shooting? Is the main spring strong, is the magazine spring strong? __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

05-17-2004, 10:54 AM	#10
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	John, the photo posting tutorial in the top entry in the Site Help & Feedback forum... Welcome to the Lugerforum. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-18-2004, 08:08 AM	#13
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	John, didnt see where you said you replaced the magazine spring. Is it strong. Are all the cases ejecting okay other than being marked? Is the hold open locking open each time? If the case scraping is taking up much of the energy the receiver may not be going back far enough. If you have a weak magazine spring, you will almost always have feed jams, __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

05-12-2004, 09:35 PM	#3
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	John, Aside from the barrel, are the serial numbers matching? According to Still ("Third Reich Lugers") there were only about 7,000 chamber-date 41, code 42 Lugers manufactured. You may have a more respectable Luger than you know. --Dwight

05-14-2004, 04:30 PM	#4
John Gunman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Lake Oswego, Oregon Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	thanks for replys. The springs have been replace with a Wolfs set. the original extractor had a chip on one side & its been replased. Managed to break the ejector & replaced it. Don't have any factory mags but do have a Macgar. Polished the chamber. What really causes me to pause, is the ejected brass has a pie shaped scratch or gouge on the mouth.

05-14-2004, 09:29 PM	#5
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	John, Can you post a picture of the marked case mouth? --Dwight

05-15-2004, 02:29 PM	#6
John Gunman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Lake Oswego, Oregon Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	great minds think alike. Now if I can figure out my sons web cam I'll post a picture of a case mouth.

05-15-2004, 11:21 PM	#7
Morris Gardner User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 24 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mag lips might be spread in front. Give them a hug and try again.

05-16-2004, 01:01 PM	#8
John Gunman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Lake Oswego, Oregon Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Checked on serial numbers & found 4 differant ones. yep mix master. will check out the mag feed lips. I do have a picture now I need to figure out how to get it here. Thanks.

05-16-2004, 01:18 PM	#9
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,034 Thanks: 1,020 Thanked 3,882 Times in 1,186 Posts	Hi John, That pie shape is also present on ejected cases of my VoPo. It has a DWM-frame/toggle with a 1936 Mauser receiver and headspace between toggle and chamber is a bit wide. It does however extract S&B factory ammo well, but sometimes the extractor slips over the case rim.

05-17-2004, 07:34 PM	#11
John Gunman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Lake Oswego, Oregon Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ok I'll give this a try. After much thinking & shade tree monkey wrenching I figured out the the gouge is at about 10:00 with the extractor at 12:00. My thinking is that the ejector is throwing the brass to the left side of the frame & scrapping an edge.

05-18-2004, 03:21 AM	#12
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	John, The marks on your brass looked somehow familiar, I picked up a couple of cases sitting on my desk and, sure enough, they exhibited the same marks. I shoot three or four different Lugers, and I didn't know for sure which gun the cases came from but I had a suspicion. So I went to the range this evening, and did some experimenting. I shot a 1917 LP-08, a 1936 S/42 (my regular shooting gun) and my 5" custom Luger. The LP-08 ejected perfect cases; the S/42 seemed to have just the hint of a marking, but only sometimes; and the custom gun produced severe marks as you show above, every shot. As I suspected. I marked a couple of cases, and inserted them single-shot into the chamber, mark at the extractor, and shot them. The case-mouth gouges appeared 90-degrees anti-clockwise from the extractor, that is, directly opposite the ejector. Here's the experiment I performed upon returning home--try it yourself, you will see exactly what is going on. Dismount the receiver group from the frame, insert an -empty- cartridge case into the chamber, and close the breech. Pull the toggle back very slowly. As the base of the cartridge case contacts the ejector, you will see it rotate--yaw--to the left. You should see it actually move into the barrel extension cut for the breechblock slide. Continue to pull the toggle back, and the ejector will push the case out of the breechblock face and it will fall out the bottom of the of the receiver. Now put the pistol back together, insert the empty case into the chamber again, and close the breech. Put another -empty- case into a magazine, insert the magazine into the gun, and make the experiment again. You will find, this time, that the presence of the next shell in the magazine (or perhaps the magazine follower itself, after the last shot) is what actually pushes the spent shell upward. If the upward motion occurs before the case mouth clears the receiver cut, the case will contact the inside of the receiver rail and this scrape will occur. --Dwight

05-18-2004, 02:14 PM	#14
John Gunman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Lake Oswego, Oregon Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Dwight-I did the same experiment as you(great minds do think alike.lol) I ran my fingernail along the left side rails & found some very sharp edges. Which now explains how the spent case had a burr on them. I polished the sharpness off. Thor-no I haven't replaced the mag springs. That will be my next move. Thanks all