Fiocchi 9MM FMJ-FP COMBATAvailable

[Sieger]

Friends,

The Fiocchi 9MM COMBAT, 124 Grain FMJ-FP, is available, once again, and at a decent price, $12.06 for 50 rounds!
!
This ammo is about the closest clone to the original DWM loading that you will find. The bullet is a dead ringer for the originals!

I loved it so much that I purchased a 1,000 round brick!

Search Gun Broker for 9mm FMJ TC for the ad.

Enjoy!


Sieger

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Sieger

Search Gun Broker for 9mm FMJ TC for the ad.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/760651165

Fiocchi 9mm 124 gr FMJ TC 50/BX

• Caliber: 9mm
• Listing Quantity: 50
• Bullet Type: FMJ TC
• Bullet Weight: 124 gr
• Muzzle Velocity: 1150 fps
• SKU: 0304173
• UPC: 000000000000
• Manufacturer Part #: 9APC

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/760651165

Fiocchi 9mm 124 gr FMJ TC 50/BX

• Caliber: 9mm
• Listing Quantity: 50
• Bullet Type: FMJ TC
• Bullet Weight: 124 gr
• Muzzle Velocity: 1150 fps
• SKU: 0304173
• UPC: 000000000000
• Manufacturer Part #: 9APC

Hi,

Actual tested fps is more like 1070, close to the exact original DWM cartridge!

Sieger

[G.T.]

Hi Bob, For my Numrich Drum testing, I have been experimenting with American Eagle 124 grain ball, which lists specs as to very close to NATO loadings from other manufactures? (actually exceeds WW 124 gr. NATO marked ammo???) I've been having some positive results with this ammo on board! It doesn't seem to recoil as does NATO or +P so I question as to whether or not it is?...
Can you tell me anything about the American Eagle 124 grain ball?... Is it a Luger killer, or good stuff?.. ... Thanks, til..lat'r...GT

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by G.T.

Hi Bob, For my Numrich Drum testing, I have been experimenting with American Eagle 124 grain ball, which lists specs as to very close to NATO loadings from other manufactures? (actually exceeds WW 124 gr. NATO marked ammo???) I've been having some positive results with this ammo on board! It doesn't seem to recoil as does NATO or +P so I question as to whether or not it is?...
Can you tell me anything about the American Eagle 124 grain ball?... Is it a Luger killer, or good stuff?.. ... Thanks, til..lat'r...GT

Hi,

GT, always a great pleasure!

The NATO Cross in Circle ammo (NATO Proofed Ammo) is the +P ammo I referenced above. Winchester sells this exact ammo to the public as..."9mm NATO" This is to be avoided.

Your American Eagle 124 grain ball ammo should be loaded to modern commercial 9mm Luger specs. These, will, again, likely exceed the original German Army loading, but by much less than the NATO loading.

One of the secrets to getting perfect function from a Luger is medium/slow burning powder. Modern commercial ammo is generally loaded hotter and with much faster burning powder than the original DWM loading.

The ultimate answer is to hand load!

I hope this helps!

Sieger

The Fiocchi Combat, I reference above, has worked great for me!

.

[DonVoigt]

GT,
what is the code on the box, AE have at least 3 124 gr 9mm loadings, none are +P.

All "nato" ammo is not the same, commercial "nato" which should be hotter, is not- if the fps data on the boxes are to be believed!

Seiger,
have you crono'd any Nato ammo? if so which brands or which military ammo.

I can't agree that "handloading" is the ultimate to make a 9mm luger run well; I have and do use at least 4 or 6 brands of 115 and 124 gr ball ammo that works equally well and will run a luger in good trim without problem; including from a drum.

[Zorba]

For some reason, that particular GB seller won't ship to Florida!

That's kinda unheard of and odd...

[G.T.]

hi guys, AE9AP..... seems to work great, although I've only run about 100 rounds thru a Luger... very positive feel on recoil?... Best, GT

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

GT,
what is the code on the box, AE have at least 3 124 gr 9mm loadings, none are +P.

All "nato" ammo is not the same, commercial "nato" which should be hotter, is not- if the fps data on the boxes are to be believed!

Seiger,
have you crono'd any Nato ammo? if so which brands or which military ammo.

I can't agree that "handloading" is the ultimate to make a 9mm luger run well; I have and do use at least 4 or 6 brands of 115 and 124 gr ball ammo that works equally well and will run a luger in good trim without problem; including from a drum.

Hi,

Opinions often vary, that's one reason I am here to learn.

Of the REAL 9mm NATO ammo I have fired (cross in circle proofed, crimped primers) it has all produced breach block slap! This will, eventually, destroy a Luger!

A lot different types of ammo will make a Luger "work". To work "right", you should be able to place 8 shots to one hole at 25 yards with no jams in at least 1,000 rounds fired.

This can be done with proper hand loads, but NOT with any modern commercial ammo that I am aware of.

Sieger

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by Zorba

For some reason, that particular GB seller won't ship to Florida!

That's kinda unheard of and odd...

Zorba,

That is quite odd!!!


Sieger

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by Sieger

Hi,

Opinions often vary, that's one reason I am here to learn.

Of the REAL 9mm NATO ammo I have fired (cross in circle proofed, crimped primers) it has all produced breach block slap! This will, eventually, destroy a Luger!

A lot different types of ammo will make a Luger "work". To work "right", you should be able to place 8 shots to one hole at 25 yards with no jams in at least 1,000 rounds fired.

This can be done with proper hand loads, but NOT with any modern commercial ammo that I am aware of.

Sieger

I'd still be interested in the velocity if you measured any, along with the source(country or mfg) of the real Nato ammo.

I have ammo with the Nato cross/circle which should be real, but when compared "roughly" by firing, it is not any hotter, and this is the same ammo that the mfg reports in the 1050 to 1100 fps, and yes it has the supposed Nato mark.

Perhaps only the brass is "Nato" and the loads are commercial?

You must be kidding about 8 rounds in one hole; with all due respect I do not buy it from a 4" luger, not even from a machine rest.

1000 rounds without malfunction, sure there are some pistols that would do that, but it would wear me out!

[G.T.]

Although not with a Luger, I know a rural farm fellow & family (good friends of mine) back in South Dakota that can put them in one hole all day long! Also, some years back, his son placed 5th in the Olympics in pistol shooting... collectively, they probably shoot a million round a year!!
But, it's all relative, given a big enough hole, I can do the same with some restrictions.. or conditions?
One, the hole has to be close enough...ideally, the muzzle protruding slightly thru the hole?
two, big enough, (see number one above?
three, no wind! Can't see when my eyes water...
four, group size, (what ever can be attained with one shot.... ?)

Reminds me of my fathers favorite drinking rules...
1) always cut me off at two, nawww, better make it two thirty!
2) the only two times I ever drink are alone or with somebody!

Best to all, til....lat'r....GT

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

You must be kidding about 8 rounds in one hole; with all due respect I do not buy it from a 4" luger, not even from a machine rest.

Don,




Sieger

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

I'd still be interested in the velocity if you measured any, along with the source(country or mfg) of the real Nato ammo.

I have ammo with the Nato cross/circle which should be real, but when compared "roughly" by firing, it is not any hotter, and this is the same ammo that the mfg reports in the 1050 to 1100 fps, and yes it has the supposed Nato mark.

Perhaps only the brass is "Nato" and the loads are commercial?

You must be kidding about 8 rounds in one hole; with all due respect I do not buy it from a 4" luger, not even from a machine rest.

1000 rounds without malfunction, sure there are some pistols that would do that, but it would wear me out!

Don,

Please check the warning on the back of a Winchester brand 9mm NATO box. Here, Winchester warns the prospective shooter that Winchester NATO ammo is loaded about 10% hotter than normal Winchester 9mm Luger ammo.

Also, on the net, there are several velocity tests of various brands of 9mm ammo, both NATO and otherwise. With PPU (of all things) 9mm NATO 123 grain ammo, shot through a 5 '' barreled service M9, velocities ranged from 1,243 to 1,260. Hirtenberger 9mm NATO, again, shot through a 5'' inch barrel, was about the same.

The United States Army Technical Manuel for service ammo also lists the 9mm NATO cartridge at 1,260 fps, as shot through a service M9 pistol.

Don, do you hand load? If so, you will find that I have posted several of my successful Luger loads in the reloading section, and my accuracy results with each of them.

I hope this helps!


Sieger

[DonVoigt]

Sieger,
No, I no longer hand load.

I have read all the "listed or printed" fps data; I am interested in actual Chrono data you might have measured yourself. As you well know, what a mfg. says and what is actually in the box is not necessarily the same.

Thanks.

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Sieger,
No, I no longer hand load.

I have read all the "listed or printed" fps data; I am interested in actual Chrono data you might have measured yourself. As you well know, what a mfg. says and what is actually in the box is not necessarily the same.

Thanks.

Don,

Sorry, nothing here for your specific question.


Sieger

[Kyrie]

Originally Posted by Sieger

--- snip ---
The NATO Cross in Circle ammo (NATO Proofed Ammo)
--- snip ---

Points of order, no disrespect intended.

The cross in a circle indicates only that the ammunition is of a type acceptable to NATO.

NATO does not proof ammunition or firearms. NATO is a political treaty, and its signatories may or may not honor the terms of that treaty.

There is no such thing as a "NATO load". Each NATO signatory is a sovereign nation and uses whatever ammunition, loaded to whatever standard they set, in whatever firearm they choose.

Chamber pressure cannot be deduced from muzzle velocity.

Hobby chronographs are not calibrated to any given standard, nor can the owner do a valid recalibration. They are effectively toys, and don't produce velocity readings that can be meaningfully compared to velocity readings produced by any other chronograph.

[DonVoigt]

Kyrie,
True dat, but I would still be interested in fps data from the SAME chrono from different "nato" marked loads. This would show relative differences, which are what are of interest to me.

I'm of the opinion that all "nato" loads are not the same, and many are not so "hot" to preclude their use in a luger.

Of course as usual the disclaimer, JMHO.

[Kyrie]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Kyrie,
True dat, but I would still be interested in fps data from the SAME chrono from different "nato" marked loads. This would show relative differences, which are what are of interest to me.

I'm of the opinion that all "nato" loads are not the same, and many are not so "hot" to preclude their use in a luger.

Of course as usual the disclaimer, JMHO.

Well said :-)

Somewhere I have a U.S. Army FM that contains a warning not to use US produced commercial 9 mm Luger ammunition in the M9 (Beretta) handgun as US commercial 9 mm Luger ammo may be loaded to pressures that can damage US issue M9 pistols.

This stuff can get passing strange in fairly short order.

Part of that is, I think, due to bad preconceptions. Take, as an example, the 7.62x25 Tokarev cartridge. S&B lists their 7.62 Tok as having a 1600 FPS MV, so people expect to get 1600 FPS out of their TT-33s and Vz.52s. When all they get is something like 1400 FPS they wonder how S&B could get things so wrong.

The missing element here, and the root of the misconception, is S&B (like just about all munitions makers) take their MV measurements at the same time they do pressure testing, and from the same pressure test barrel. Which, for S&B, and for the 7.62 Tok cartridge is a barrel that is just shy of eleven inches in length. Small wonder people usually get circa 1400 FPS from TT-33/Vz.52 using S&B 7.62 Tok.

[rhuff]

Sometime in the past, I read a nice report about the "range" of velocities that were found in NATO 9mm ammo. It was quite staggering, to say the least. I will try and see if I can find this information and present it here. It was a well written article with good references.


When one reads the velocity rating for any brand and caliber of ammo, you must know how that was determined(i.e. barrel length, test barrel or production barrel, actual firearm or test barrel, etc.) in order to deduce the values as to your situation. A lot of variation exists in velocity rating from professional equipment and private equipment, but I feel the gap has closed down a lot in the recent years.