A *very* nice score

Navy · 04-12-2004, 08:09 PM

All,

SN 170 arrived today. See Gibson, p 241.
It appears that the toggle has never been racked, much less fired. Mag is fxo with SN 170 etched on spine. A magnificent, if somewhat pricey, addition to the collection.

Oh well, I can always get more money.

Tom A.

Pete Ebbink · 04-12-2004, 09:47 PM

Hope I do not get "tarred & feathered"...!

I just do not "get" the Post War HK lugers at all...

Why are they so collectable ?....when then were just assembled after the factory had been liberated by the Allies...and posibly sold in PX stores (at least the externally numbered guns, according to R. Gibson on page 69).

These guns were not issued to any fighting men, did not go into battle, were not captured on the battle field, not recovered from a downed airplane,...etc...

What makes them collectible and so pricey...?

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Edward Tinker · 04-12-2004, 10:05 PM

Pete, I admire them, but I would venture the vast, I mean the vast majority of collectors would take a gun that is 99.9% that sat in a desk drawer of Col. Smtheryn...

I am more of the exception, although I want one that is very nice, one that was carried by the soldier appeals to me far more...

Pete and not to put a friend on the spot, do you prefer them shiney and %95 + or?

I think they are expensive because there are "fewer" of them, plus they are WW2 Nazi guns, so there is a mysteque to them via being the last, being rarer etc.

Ed

Pete Ebbink · 04-13-2004, 02:44 PM

Hello Ed,

Generally, I need to see enough wear, patina, oxidation, etc. on a luger to meet my comfort zone, as Albert Beliard as phrased it in his past postings.

I am not a "mint freak" and certainly many of the lugers in my small but growing collection will attest to that. Certainly with any gun from the War-eras, I would want it to show some evidence of use and service...what fun is a luger from a war-time era that has that "sock-drawer" appearance...?

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

John D. · 04-13-2004, 06:43 PM

Hey Tom...!!!!

Congrats!!!!!! <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> A terrific addition!!!!!! PICTURES!!!! Gosh Darn it - PICTURES!!!

Also - Pete..!

Nope - I won't Flame a bit!! I look at post-war as another era in Luger manufacturing from HK.. It's part of the history of the manufacturer, rather then a piece that was part of the war effort. In my view (which is "narrow" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ) both and all eras are collectible. However - for that - you are not alone! Even many HK Collectors look at the post war - and the HK DWM Reworks as you - and that's OK as well....

Another "post war" variation I find equally as fascinating are the "parts guns" - or those assembled by the GIs. In some cases - they have verified the existence of lesser produced "Military" production runs - so I find them equally interesting and noteworthy.

Anyway - just my opinion from this side of the telescope....

Best to you - and Tom - MOST EXCELLENT!!!

Navy · 04-13-2004, 10:02 PM

Pix when dust settles; am up to my poncho liner in alligators and will be for next week or so...mebbe more, but it is a *very* lucrative deal.

Tom A

MIKE MORRIS · 04-13-2004, 10:18 PM

Guys..........I obtained post war Krieghoff serial # 7, ( see Gibson's book) that was presented to Capt. David Clyde Elder the acting military govenor of Suhl, Germany, for his " Humane treatment of the German people " by the Krieghoff workers during his term. He is the one responsible for the authorization to asemble what was left at the Krieghoff factory for P X sales. This is all in a original letter ( notarized and dated Jan. 29, 1968 ) that I still have in my possesion, along with his complete military govenors uniform. I conversed by telephone with him before he passed away and obtained it and the " Sword of Suhl ". The sword is long gone, but I still have the original letters and his uniform, to include his visor hat which he describes in the letter accompanying them. The purchaser of serial # 7 wasn't interested in either, so I guess I'm stuck with 'em. (The uniform sure looks good on a manniquin though.) Capt. Elder mentions in the letter a " fine nickle plated P-38 with custom walnut grips with solid silver shields with his initials engraved on them " was also presented to him. Where is that P-38 today ??? This is the kind of documents I have for the current owners of these collectables. There were very few post war Krieghoffs assembled and that's why they command a high price. They are still a Krieghoff........no matter when they were made !!!.............Mike Morris

Navy · 04-13-2004, 10:50 PM

Pete,

They are part of a *very* small group with a distinct history and known provenance. They are also very necessary to complete a collection...as is a 1904 for Navies.

Rare and in demand, that's what makes 'em pricey.

Tom A.

Edward Tinker · 04-13-2004, 11:21 PM

Mike, you could "unload" that stuff in Colorado, it'd look fine on my wall,

I just don't understand not wanting items such as that to compliment your gun?

Ed

MIKE MORRIS · 04-14-2004, 12:04 AM

Ed...thanks for the reply. Yeah, you'r right..I couldn't understand it either. But..since he declined, I can let some one else have them. Maybe someday he will wake up, but all will be gone by then. In any respect, the complete uniform and letters are up for grabs.......The letters document the post war Krieg's manufacture. I tried to copy and paste a copy of the uniform/luger/sword and letter, to the forum, but I'm not doing too well in posting it here. If you will e-mail me, I'll try to do it that way...sorry..Mike

MIKE MORRIS · 04-14-2004, 12:12 AM

Edward Tinker · 04-14-2004, 10:27 AM

pictures posted for mike

04-12-2004, 08:09 PM	#1
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	*A very* nice score** All, SN 170 arrived today. See Gibson, p 241. It appears that the toggle has never been racked, much less fired. Mag is fxo with SN 170 etched on spine. A magnificent, if somewhat pricey, addition to the collection. Oh well, I can always get more money. Tom A.

04-12-2004, 10:05 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Pete, I admire them, but I would venture the vast, I mean the vast majority of collectors would take a gun that is 99.9% that sat in a desk drawer of Col. Smtheryn... I am more of the exception, although I want one that is very nice, one that was carried by the soldier appeals to me far more... Pete and not to put a friend on the spot, do you prefer them shiney and %95 + or? I think they are expensive because there are "fewer" of them, plus they are WW2 Nazi guns, so there is a mysteque to them via being the last, being rarer etc. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

04-13-2004, 10:18 PM	#7
MIKE MORRIS User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: BULVERDE, TEXAS Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Guys..........I obtained post war Krieghoff serial # 7, ( see Gibson's book) that was presented to Capt. David Clyde Elder the acting military govenor of Suhl, Germany, for his " Humane treatment of the German people " by the Krieghoff workers during his term. He is the one responsible for the authorization to asemble what was left at the Krieghoff factory for P X sales. This is all in a original letter ( notarized and dated Jan. 29, 1968 ) that I still have in my possesion, along with his complete military govenors uniform. I conversed by telephone with him before he passed away and obtained it and the " Sword of Suhl ". The sword is long gone, but I still have the original letters and his uniform, to include his visor hat which he describes in the letter accompanying them. The purchaser of serial # 7 wasn't interested in either, so I guess I'm stuck with 'em. (The uniform sure looks good on a manniquin though.) Capt. Elder mentions in the letter a " fine nickle plated P-38 with custom walnut grips with solid silver shields with his initials engraved on them " was also presented to him. Where is that P-38 today ??? This is the kind of documents I have for the current owners of these collectables. There were very few post war Krieghoffs assembled and that's why they command a high price. They are still a Krieghoff........no matter when they were made !!!.............Mike Morris __________________ MIKE MORRIS

04-13-2004, 11:21 PM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Mike, you could "unload" that stuff in Colorado, it'd look fine on my wall, I just don't understand not wanting items such as that to compliment your gun? Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

04-14-2004, 12:04 AM	#10
MIKE MORRIS User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: BULVERDE, TEXAS Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ed...thanks for the reply. Yeah, you'r right..I couldn't understand it either. But..since he declined, I can let some one else have them. Maybe someday he will wake up, but all will be gone by then. In any respect, the complete uniform and letters are up for grabs.......The letters document the post war Krieg's manufacture. I tried to copy and paste a copy of the uniform/luger/sword and letter, to the forum, but I'm not doing too well in posting it here. If you will e-mail me, I'll try to do it that way...sorry..Mike __________________ MIKE MORRIS

04-12-2004, 09:47 PM	#2
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hope I do not get "tarred & feathered"...! I just do not "get" the Post War HK lugers at all... Why are they so collectable ?....when then were just assembled after the factory had been liberated by the Allies...and posibly sold in PX stores (at least the externally numbered guns, according to R. Gibson on page 69). These guns were not issued to any fighting men, did not go into battle, were not captured on the battle field, not recovered from a downed airplane,...etc... What makes them collectible and so pricey...? Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

04-13-2004, 02:44 PM	#4
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Ed, Generally, I need to see enough wear, patina, oxidation, etc. on a luger to meet my comfort zone, as Albert Beliard as phrased it in his past postings. I am not a "mint freak" and certainly many of the lugers in my small but growing collection will attest to that. Certainly with any gun from the War-eras, I would want it to show some evidence of use and service...what fun is a luger from a war-time era that has that "sock-drawer" appearance...? Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

04-13-2004, 06:43 PM	#5
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 471 Thanked 513 Times in 127 Posts	Hey Tom...!!!! Congrats!!!!!! <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> A terrific addition!!!!!! PICTURES!!!! Gosh Darn it - PICTURES!!! Also - Pete..! Nope - I won't Flame a bit!! I look at post-war as another era in Luger manufacturing from HK.. It's part of the history of the manufacturer, rather then a piece that was part of the war effort. In my view (which is "narrow" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ) both and all eras are collectible. However - for that - you are not alone! Even many HK Collectors look at the post war - and the HK DWM Reworks as you - and that's OK as well.... Another "post war" variation I find equally as fascinating are the "parts guns" - or those assembled by the GIs. In some cases - they have verified the existence of lesser produced "Military" production runs - so I find them equally interesting and noteworthy. Anyway - just my opinion from this side of the telescope.... Best to you - and Tom - MOST EXCELLENT!!!

04-13-2004, 10:02 PM	#6
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Pix when dust settles; am up to my poncho liner in alligators and will be for next week or so...mebbe more, but it is a very lucrative deal. Tom A

04-13-2004, 10:50 PM	#8
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Pete, They are part of a very small group with a distinct history and known provenance. They are also very necessary to complete a collection...as is a 1904 for Navies. Rare and in demand, that's what makes 'em pricey. Tom A.

04-14-2004, 12:12 AM	#11
MIKE MORRIS User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: BULVERDE, TEXAS Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	__________________ MIKE MORRIS

04-14-2004, 10:27 AM	#12
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	pictures posted for mike __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV