Kü Club Meeting Summary (2012)

[mrerick]

Hi,

As part of working with Mauro and Gerben (Vlim) on the Mauser Archive documentary, "The Legacy of Paul Mauser", I attended the 2012 meeting of the Kü Club in Oberndorf a. Neckar July 14-15, 2012.

This year's meeting included several members of this discussion board, and leaders from the old Mauser company.

Our meeting was hosted by the Oberndorf Weapons Museum (English Translation), which has an outstanding display of Mauser firearms and other products. The museum is located in the old Swedish Bureau which was built by Mauser to manufacture Mauser rifles for the Swedish Contract and also the C-96 pistol. The museum's manager opened the meeting with quite a celebration party.

Several Mauser factory buildings are still in use, many owned today by the Oberndorf government. The old Mauser factory showroom has been restored to a splendid civic theater (it started as the church of a Cloister before being secularized in the early 1800s, and made into the region's armory, then the Mauser factory showroom later in the century).

It is still possible to see the buildings where Mauser lived, the factories where our Lugers and P.38 pistols were made, Paul Mauser's mansion (never occupied, as it was completed just after he died in 1914) and so much more.

Between informal meetings, breakfasts at the host bed and breakfast, and our formal dinner, we discussed many things relating to Mauser, firearms from Oberndorf, and the research and technical interests of attendees. Rare historic documents and artifacts were available; preparation for upcoming books was discussed. I have never before met so generous a group of friends sharing a common interest.

I attempted to summarize our discussion of the Kü Luger in a presentation given the last evening we were together. I've attached that here to share our current knowledge, and open further discussion and research.

One of the highlights of my visit to Oberndorf came Sunday when Gerd took us to an annual "Boar Sausage" celebration with a regional hunting society, held deep in the Black Forest. There is nothing like this fresh sausage and good fresh beer on tap in the beautiful natural area surrounded by the tall pines of the Black Forest.

The local paper covered our work (English Translation) on the Mauser documentary, which is now starting through post production.

We should have some pictures to post from the event soon! I certainly hope to visit again soon...

[mrerick]

Attached are a few pictures from this year's meeting:

[mrerick]

In Sturgess on pages 478 and 479, he publishes a copy of a secret listing of Ordinance Offices from 1944 (identified as probably the last).

The consistent approach for abbreviating these offices used the first letter of the office's identity followed by the last letter of the office's identity.

For example Krugau (Brandenberg) is code "Ku" (no umlaut).

These lists were updated every six months.

Is there a city in Germany that starts with "K" and ends with "ü" with an Umlaut?

Marc

[mrerick]

Perhaps this is another clue to solving the mystery of the Ku Lugers.

I followed up on the depot that the Sturgess book referenced as being in Brandenburg at Krugau.

Turns out that this was known during the war as:

Flyer Technical Warehouse 14 (FTL-14) at Markische-Heide-Krugau.

http://wikimapia.org/31491461/de/Fli...e-Heide-Krugau

This was listed as a main ordinance depot for weapons in the Sturgess document (H.Za.). It is in the Berlin Military District III, and must have contained a forced labor camp. There is a Soviet War Memorial erected in 1946 in the cemetery of the Krugau district for 42 women, men and children that perished during the Second World War in a munitions factory doing forced labor.

Here's a description of the history of FTL-14:

https://translate.google.com/transla...e=form&act=url

Material storage

Krugau, FTL-14

Object data

• <h2>
• Construction 1939-40
• Commissioning 01.06.1940 [1]
• several storage bunkers, warehouses, production facilities
• Siding from Börnichen-Schlepzig station (route Falkenberg - Beeskow)</h2>

Terms history

• <h2>
• Army ammunition factory and army-tank side Zeugamt [1]
• after World War II bombing of the production and storage area
• 1958 Technical flyer bearing the NVA [3]
• around 1980 construction of a shooting range [2]
• October 1990 takeover by the Bundeswehr as "Spreewald barracks" of LwMatDp 51 [3]
• since August 1994 cards bearing east of the Bundeswehr
• since 01.01.2005 medical supplies bearing the armed forces base [4]</h2>

Map [5]

© Public Domain, Courtesy Harold B. Lee Library, Brigham Young University


Photo documentation
Fertigungs- und Lagerbereich



Bahnverladung






So... could this be the birthplace of Ku Lugers?



Marc

[Edward Tinker]

the KU has always interested me, only had one so far (that I sold) but they fascinate me.

As do;

Test Lugers
Fat Barrels
Carbines
Baby Nambus

[Sergio Natali]

Ku Lugers, what a shade of mistery around them!
And all those partecipants look like belonging to a very very exclusive club I think.

Fascinating.

Sergio

[mauro]

Nice Marc, Well done...

Remind that, according to the Kü chart, if the Kü meaning will be discovered, we need to dissolve our Kü club so, please, keep some secret areas :-)

Mauro

[saab-bob]

Amazing how many of these German WW2 sites are still recognizable.

I have been watching the PBS series "Nazi Mega Weapons" on Netflix. The Nazi built some amazing structures that are still standing. Interesting series to view.

Speaking of WW2,has anybody seen the new movie "Fury" with Brad Pitt? Not exactly a "happy" movie,but it had a few really good scenes. The acting was great and the equipment looked very correct. In my humble opinion not a anti-war movie,but more a collage of situations our fathers and grandfathers faced during WW2.
Similar to another favorite movie of mine about WW2,"Das Boote"
Bob

[Don M]

Originally Posted by mauro

Remind that, according to the Kü chart, if the Kü meaning will be discovered, we need to dissolve our Kü club so, please, keep some secret areas :-)

I think the club will be safe for at least a while. Ignoring the lack of an umlaut in Krugau is like believing it could have been abbreviated as Kb. or some other abbreviation Kx. where x is not found in Krugau. It is an entirely different letter.

My experience in trying to interpret German abbreviations (admittedly, mostly police) suggests that the ü would not necessarily be the last letter in the word. It could as well been the second letter or even somewhere between the second and last. I don't think there were any universal rules for abbreviations in German just as there are no such rules in English. It just needs to make sense and be recognizable. See, for example, the discussion on p. 46 of HWIS.

[mrerick]

I mainly seized upon this site because of it's apparent usage, and the "Ku" abbreviation listed in the secret German site list. Clearly, no Umlaut...

Marc

[Sergio Natali]

All those people wondering about / looking for the "real" origin of the Ku mark; it's a bit like looking for the "Holy Grail" I think, so far I've heard about few (5 or 6 at least) different theories about the origin of that mark, one of which is explained in the below link.

Who knows, unless some written documents will be fund, unfortunately the few people that probably worked at those scarce Lugers are not alive to let us know the truth any more.

Anyway so far I've never seen a "Ku" Luger. :-(

Sergio

http://www.icollector.com/Unique-Wor...-and_i15827729

[Vlim]

The best theory so far suggests the LZa at Küpper - Sagan.

It was a large facility with the means to assemble and proof them.

[sheepherder]

Is the "Ku" always in the same place???

[Edward Tinker]

no, there is a prefix and a suffix KU