Why many old pistols have "white" muzzle?

alvin · 05-25-2008, 12:51 PM

I can remember Nagant 1895, C96, Parabellums, ..... the list goes on, all of them have "white" muzzle. Obviously designed this way.

Pretty? not really. Functional?

Any thoughts?

=====

Related with corrosive ammo??

var99 · 05-25-2008, 02:54 PM

HI Alvin,

They actually were originally blued on the muzzle as well, but the Military versions of these pistols and were issued and carried in a holster, the friction and rubbing of which polished the muzzle white over time, since that is were the weight of pistol rested. One does see commercial models from time to time with intact bluing on the muzzle.

That's my understanding anyway.

Vince

Vlim · 05-25-2008, 04:45 PM

Vince,

Not really. The original rust blue Lugers had an unblued muzzle end.
Personally I think it had to do with the blueing method. The barrels were suspended in a fixture and the barrel ends plugged. This probably made reaching the muzzle end difficult or impossible, hence, no blue there.

alvin · 05-25-2008, 06:00 PM

It's interesting to notice even those salt blued guns, e.g. "Black Widows", Modell 1930s, Schnellfeuers, etc, also have unblued muzzle (Vince, sorry, but it's definitely not by holster rubbing -- rubbing could not do the job so clean and so uniform... and on so many guns).

Mauser Parabellum imported by Interarms in 1970s has blued muzzle. I have never seen a postwar HK Luger..... don't know that one.

LugerVern · 05-25-2008, 08:16 PM

I like the fixture idea, but it would have resulted in at least some splatter on the crown of the barrel.

You can buy crowning tools in various shapes, the idea is to true up the end of the barrel and rifling by removing a small amount of metal. The bluing around the barrel ends is way to perfect, so I suspect it is a function of the crowning process in conjunction with the ends being plugged during bluing.

Just a guess, I have nothing to back that idea up

Vern

alvin · 07-09-2008, 08:04 AM

I went through "Mauser Pistolen" (Weaver, Speed & Schmid, 2008) again...... step 10 in 1938 factory assembling instruction of 6,35/7,65 was "After bluing, the barrel is emeried [smoothed with emery cloth] at the cartridge feed ramp, chamber and muzzle" (page 201).

I looked up the meaning of "emery cloth" on the web ..... being a type of "sand paper".

Probably similar step was applied to other type of Mauser pistolen.

John Sabato · 07-09-2008, 09:20 AM

I would opine that the smoothing of the muzzle or crown by the use of emery cloth (a method I also used myself in my early days as a gunsmith apprentice)... probably had more use than just cosmetics...

Before WW2, smokeless powder cartridges usually had corrosive priming, and a polished muzzle would be much less likely to "capture" poweder/primer debris from the muzzle blast and the smooth metal would lessen the chance of a corroded crown... The same would hold true for a polished and blued muzzle, but the crown would eventually be white from the blast effects of shooting... a smooth white muzzle would always look good after cleaning, but a blued muzzle that was in the process of being removed by shooting blast would eventually look terrible... hence the smooth white muzzle on firearms.

I can remember polishing the muzzle end of my blued 1911A1 barrel so that the size of the bore would be contrasted against the blue of the bushing and slide... so that if it were pointed at someone who was a threat, that they could ponder the size hole it would make in them.

05-25-2008, 12:51 PM	#1
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Why many old pistols have "white" muzzle? I can remember Nagant 1895, C96, Parabellums, ..... the list goes on, all of them have "white" muzzle. Obviously designed this way. Pretty? not really. Functional? Any thoughts? ===== Related with corrosive ammo??

07-09-2008, 09:20 AM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,152 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I would opine that the smoothing of the muzzle or crown by the use of emery cloth (a method I also used myself in my early days as a gunsmith apprentice)... probably had more use than just cosmetics... Before WW2, smokeless powder cartridges usually had corrosive priming, and a polished muzzle would be much less likely to "capture" poweder/primer debris from the muzzle blast and the smooth metal would lessen the chance of a corroded crown... The same would hold true for a polished and blued muzzle, but the crown would eventually be white from the blast effects of shooting... a smooth white muzzle would always look good after cleaning, but a blued muzzle that was in the process of being removed by shooting blast would eventually look terrible... hence the smooth white muzzle on firearms. I can remember polishing the muzzle end of my blued 1911A1 barrel so that the size of the bore would be contrasted against the blue of the bushing and slide... so that if it were pointed at someone who was a threat, that they could ponder the size hole it would make in them. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-25-2008, 02:54 PM	#2
var99 User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: FL Posts: 114 Thanks: 4 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	HI Alvin, They actually were originally blued on the muzzle as well, but the Military versions of these pistols and were issued and carried in a holster, the friction and rubbing of which polished the muzzle white over time, since that is were the weight of pistol rested. One does see commercial models from time to time with intact bluing on the muzzle. That's my understanding anyway. Vince

05-25-2008, 04:45 PM	#3
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,049 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,957 Times in 1,200 Posts	Vince, Not really. The original rust blue Lugers had an unblued muzzle end. Personally I think it had to do with the blueing method. The barrels were suspended in a fixture and the barrel ends plugged. This probably made reaching the muzzle end difficult or impossible, hence, no blue there.

05-25-2008, 06:00 PM	#4
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	It's interesting to notice even those salt blued guns, e.g. "Black Widows", Modell 1930s, Schnellfeuers, etc, also have unblued muzzle (Vince, sorry, but it's definitely not by holster rubbing -- rubbing could not do the job so clean and so uniform... and on so many guns). Mauser Parabellum imported by Interarms in 1970s has blued muzzle. I have never seen a postwar HK Luger..... don't know that one.

05-25-2008, 08:16 PM	#5
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	I like the fixture idea, but it would have resulted in at least some splatter on the crown of the barrel. You can buy crowning tools in various shapes, the idea is to true up the end of the barrel and rifling by removing a small amount of metal. The bluing around the barrel ends is way to perfect, so I suspect it is a function of the crowning process in conjunction with the ends being plugged during bluing. Just a guess, I have nothing to back that idea up Vern

07-09-2008, 08:04 AM	#6
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	I went through "Mauser Pistolen" (Weaver, Speed & Schmid, 2008) again...... step 10 in 1938 factory assembling instruction of 6,35/7,65 was "After bluing, the barrel is emeried [smoothed with emery cloth] at the cartridge feed ramp, chamber and muzzle" (page 201). I looked up the meaning of "emery cloth" on the web ..... being a type of "sand paper". Probably similar step was applied to other type of Mauser pistolen.