Need help with an EXTREMELY rare Luger

240to1919 · 02-05-2013, 07:49 PM

Hey guys I'm new to collecting Lugers but not firearms. I started after I retired from the Army and haven't looked back. I need help pricing a recently purchased Luger that to my knowledge are only 8-10 were made and even fewer that have been located. It's a Mauser S/42 Precision/Accuracy Test Luger.
The most up to date research on these examples was completed by the Dutch Luger scholar, Joop van de Kant, based on Mauser archives and the recollections of August Weiss, the last head of Mauser Parabellum production who died many years ago. In his new book, The Mauser Parabellum, 1930-1946, at Page 365 he provides the true history of the Üb-marked guns (with "Üb" abbreviating Übung, German for "practice" or "exercise"). He also lists and depicts three more known guns: S/Ns 1413, 1311, and 1316. (These are closer in number to my S/N 1907 example). That makes for at least eight known examples, in two groups, one of four guns in the below 2000 range, and one of four guns in the 11000 range. The key things to know with respect to your questions are the following: 1. The "A" stands for Anschuss, the German word for precision test. 2. The little hole shown in the Kenyon example is by far the outlier exception. It may have been drilled to destroy the barrel, as there were used to the point of near-destruction, as seen in certain other captured arms. The point is that Kenyon was wrong about the theory that these were "pressure test" guns; they were not. In any event, a pressure test gauge would have required a larger hole and a top-mounted gas shunt. To paraphrase Joop, the origin of the guns lies in the problems that Mauser encountered concerning the high percentage of rejected Luger pistols at the final accuracy test (Anschuss) of the military acceptance procedure. In order to obtain the second acceptance proof, pistols were submitted to a precision test. Mauser workers had to shoot one magazine of 8 rounds at a special target at a distance of 50 meters from a bench rest. At least 5 round should be in, or touch, a circle of 17 cm in the middle of the target. When this was not achieved, the pistol went back to the factory for readjustment of the front sight, or even a barrel replacement. Mauser was very concerned about the high percentage of rejects at the first presentation for this test. Therefore, the next steps were introduced during mid-1935 (confirmed by a Mauser document I have seen and read, and which is in Joop's book): 1. Out of all workers the best marksmen were selected. 2. A bonus was offered for these marksmen when they could improve the rate of accepted pistols at the first attempt. This bonus went from 1 Pfennig for a rate of 31-35%, to 4,5 Pfennig for a rate of 70% or higher. 3. These marksmen were invited to practice target shooting in private time. 4. For this practice, an unknown quantity of so called and marked Üb pistols were assembled from obsolete parts. These pistols were kept in the factory and issued to the marksmen during their exercising. The first Üb marked pistols were assembled in 1935. In view of the growing production numbers of military Luger pistols produced per month thereafter, more Üb marked pistols were added during 1936-1941 (evidenced by some, the rarest, with a byf toggle, which could only have been made in or after 1941). The Üb marking is observed mostly on the chamber, also on the wooden grip panels and some on top of the barrel. These pistols are mostly non-matching, and a mix of DWM, Erfurt and Mauser parts is reported. They have nothing to do with hypothesized "tool room" or "pressure test" pistols. About half of these pistols have also the "A" stamped on various locations like the barrel or the grip plates (or both). As described on page 300 of “Lugers At Random” by Kenyon, this is a Mauser (S/42) pressure-test Luger, pieced together with mismatched, unfinished oversize parts off the production line to test chamber pressures. Per Kenyon, less than 10 of these guns were ever produced, and his photographed example is, per him, the only one known to exist, However, our research indicates that eight, and possibly, as many as 10 of these guns are known to exist - it is nonetheless a VERY rare gun. I believe this gun was “liberated” from the production line before the pressure test hole was drilled in the barrel, however it may have never had a hole, there is debate currently as to weather or not all of these guns actually had a hole drilled. . Sans this hole, everything else matches Kenyon’s description, including the “A” marking on the barrel “UB” on the receiver atop the 1939 date and “LW” on the right side of the receiver. The grips are marked “EW” on the right grip and UB, A’ on the left grip. The gun has a rough finish, but overall condition (grips, finish and bore) is 85%. The only history we got on this gun from the seller was that he purchased this piece, and some other guns from the estate of a WWII Veteran who had just passed away. I would like to know what the value of this pistol is. I've been told anything from 10,000 to 25,000. I've even been told its too rare to price. I tried to upload my photos so ill try again later and see if I can get them up. Any help that you guys can give me I would be grateful.

240to1919 · 02-05-2013, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

Bryan -

This forum only allows uploads of pics after a certain number of posts here - 10 I think...So, keep posting!

Lots of Luger scholars here, surely they will be interested!

Thanks Postino! Ill see what I can do.

lugerholsterrepair · 02-05-2013, 08:32 PM

Bryan, I look forward to photo's after reading your post. As far as pricing..I have to wonder. To realize the big bucks for even a rare pistol it would have to have great historical or personal interest. One that was a working tool such as this, even if there were few of them does not readily convert to a huge payday IMO.
pieced together with mismatched, unfinished oversize parts off the production line to test chamber pressures is of smaller interest that an all matching rare 1944 98% Krieghoff for the same $25.000?
While there may be someone interested in a pistol like the one you describe..he would have to be a very esoteric collector with deep pockets. There MAY be a collector out there like that though!

240to1919 · 02-05-2013, 08:54 PM

Its more of a curriosity of value. I know this isnt a Luger in 45 cal but like every historical firearm it has a story... a unique story. And maybe that story will appeal to someone out there eventually. For now Ill settle for an estimated price.

Edward Tinker · 02-05-2013, 09:59 PM

Kenyon is a good book, but its about 45 yrs old or more...

Also "I need help pricing a recently purchased Luger" - if you bought it, then you know the price. I assume you are hoping it is very, very expensive.

No gun is impossible to price, obviously you guys bought it, and if you paid almost nothing for it....

Are you Jackson Armory?

Edward Tinker · 02-05-2013, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

Bryan -

This forum only allows uploads of pics after a certain number of posts here - 10 I think...So, keep posting

I did not see a min number of posts before you are allowed to post photo's???

I looked in the admin section....

lugerholsterrepair · 02-05-2013, 10:20 PM

From what I can see the top cannon does not match the frame? Can you rundown the matched or mismatched parts? Firing pin, barrel, toggle pin, grips etc?

From the description in Kenyon there was a hole in the barrel for this pressure test..This seems to be without as per your description but a further look at serial numbers could shed some light here.

Interesting piece. I think for pricing purposes authentication is in order. If the pistol will stand up to a through inspection.. pricing would be worthwhile. If it cannot be authenticated pricing is a moot point.

Second to all the serial numbers is to wash out the whiting from the symbols etc. to determine their method of application. Engraved or stamped. That should again shed some light.

It seems the theory that this is Mauser S/42 Precision/Accuracy Test Luger is somewhat odd considering that the pistol is made up of a strange combination of mismatched parts?

The frame, the top cannon and the sideplate all appear to be mismatched.

240to1919 · 02-05-2013, 10:37 PM

Ed... No I purchased it from Jackson's and I have actually wanted this piece for a while believe it or not. Read about this particular model while surfing through Luger literature. I bought it for a couple grand and yes I would like this investment to be a wise one... I'm not going to purchase a firearm for a couple thousand and hope its worthless. I wanted the opinion of subject matter experts. In researching the pistol there is a lack of information on this firearm which includes price... Want to make sure I didn't pay too much for something that isn't worth the metal scrapped.

Jerry Sounds good. How do I go about authenticating the pistol?

Edward Tinker · 02-05-2013, 10:41 PM

It is always possible to pick up a 'sleeper' which this one might be.

I sure didn't say it was worthless, I said that you were hoping it was very valuable.

I have seen too many folks come on with a luger, and they have little knowledge and assume that the gun is very valuable. It sounds like you did some reading ahead of time.

Did you ask Joop what he thought it was worth?

240to1919 · 02-05-2013, 11:00 PM

I've done as much research as I can from a hospital bed lol. I remembered a lot of stuff from research I've done before and since I'm having a hard time finding anymore I've turned to you fine gentleman. I do hope it's worth more than what I purchased but I'm not holding my breath. Again since I've had a hard time finding any info on anything on this pistol let alone what it's worth I turn to Luger forum. I haven't been able to get in contact with him but would love to hear anything he has to say about the firearm.

lugerholsterrepair · 02-05-2013, 11:28 PM

Bryan, I am sure another Member will see this post and have better knowledge of this particular model than I ever will.

My main thrust is to get an accurate look at it. What's under the grips..the various serial numbers and wash off the white on the symbols to see if they are stamped or engraved. Pretty basic stuff to analyze the pistol. That will all be necessary no matter who comes next to give an opinion.

Did the pistol come with a magazine?

Sometimes very rare or seldom seen pistols can be difficult as there are so few examples to compare them to/with. It would be hard to call up any kind of expert on a pistol where there are so few of them.

Vlim · 02-06-2013, 07:08 AM

Basically, Kenyon's description is a collection of BS. Ignore it.

As Joop stated in his book, these pistols were available for the Mauser test firing crew to practice their shooting skills. They were not intended for pressure test purposes at all.

lugerholsterrepair · 02-06-2013, 10:54 AM

these pistols were available for the Mauser test firing crew to practice their shooting skills.

If that's what they are.. and I have no reason to doubt Gerben or Joop..then they wind up being a mismatched shooter Luger with odd markings. Some historical significance but not enough to justify a great deal of money?

DavidJayUden · 02-06-2013, 11:15 AM

Interesting to see if there are mod's. to the sights, how the trigger pull is, if they were extraordinarlily accurate, etc.
dju

Vlim · 02-06-2013, 07:00 PM

Well, they are bottom of the barrel type pistols which have been shot, shot and shot again and probably have been repaired a zillion times.

But they come from the bottom of Mauser's own factory barrel and are rare beasts. They formed part of the production and QA-process at Mauser, so that makes them kinda special.

lugerholsterrepair · 02-06-2013, 07:45 PM

Gerben, Now we know what they are..Do you have any opinion on what one would be worth? I don't think it's in the $10,000 to $25,000 bracket..even with their rarity and cool markings I can't figure more than $2500 maybe?

nukem556 · 02-07-2013, 09:47 AM

I remember seeing this gun offered by the snake-oil salesmen at Jackson Armory a couple months ago for about $9000.00...please tell us you didnt pay that!

lugerholsterrepair · 02-07-2013, 11:59 AM

Yikes!

alanint · 02-07-2013, 02:35 PM

We are talking the same Luger on this thread..............

lugerholsterrepair · 02-07-2013, 02:54 PM

Looks like the same one to me.

02-05-2013, 07:49 PM	#1
240to1919 User Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Need help with an EXTREMELY rare Luger Hey guys I'm new to collecting Lugers but not firearms. I started after I retired from the Army and haven't looked back. I need help pricing a recently purchased Luger that to my knowledge are only 8-10 were made and even fewer that have been located. It's a Mauser S/42 Precision/Accuracy Test Luger. The most up to date research on these examples was completed by the Dutch Luger scholar, Joop van de Kant, based on Mauser archives and the recollections of August Weiss, the last head of Mauser Parabellum production who died many years ago. In his new book, The Mauser Parabellum, 1930-1946, at Page 365 he provides the true history of the Üb-marked guns (with "Üb" abbreviating Übung, German for "practice" or "exercise"). He also lists and depicts three more known guns: S/Ns 1413, 1311, and 1316. (These are closer in number to my S/N 1907 example). That makes for at least eight known examples, in two groups, one of four guns in the below 2000 range, and one of four guns in the 11000 range. The key things to know with respect to your questions are the following: 1. The "A" stands for Anschuss, the German word for precision test. 2. The little hole shown in the Kenyon example is by far the outlier exception. It may have been drilled to destroy the barrel, as there were used to the point of near-destruction, as seen in certain other captured arms. The point is that Kenyon was wrong about the theory that these were "pressure test" guns; they were not. In any event, a pressure test gauge would have required a larger hole and a top-mounted gas shunt. To paraphrase Joop, the origin of the guns lies in the problems that Mauser encountered concerning the high percentage of rejected Luger pistols at the final accuracy test (Anschuss) of the military acceptance procedure. In order to obtain the second acceptance proof, pistols were submitted to a precision test. Mauser workers had to shoot one magazine of 8 rounds at a special target at a distance of 50 meters from a bench rest. At least 5 round should be in, or touch, a circle of 17 cm in the middle of the target. When this was not achieved, the pistol went back to the factory for readjustment of the front sight, or even a barrel replacement. Mauser was very concerned about the high percentage of rejects at the first presentation for this test. Therefore, the next steps were introduced during mid-1935 (confirmed by a Mauser document I have seen and read, and which is in Joop's book): 1. Out of all workers the best marksmen were selected. 2. A bonus was offered for these marksmen when they could improve the rate of accepted pistols at the first attempt. This bonus went from 1 Pfennig for a rate of 31-35%, to 4,5 Pfennig for a rate of 70% or higher. 3. These marksmen were invited to practice target shooting in private time. 4. For this practice, an unknown quantity of so called and marked Üb pistols were assembled from obsolete parts. These pistols were kept in the factory and issued to the marksmen during their exercising. The first Üb marked pistols were assembled in 1935. In view of the growing production numbers of military Luger pistols produced per month thereafter, more Üb marked pistols were added during 1936-1941 (evidenced by some, the rarest, with a byf toggle, which could only have been made in or after 1941). The Üb marking is observed mostly on the chamber, also on the wooden grip panels and some on top of the barrel. These pistols are mostly non-matching, and a mix of DWM, Erfurt and Mauser parts is reported. They have nothing to do with hypothesized "tool room" or "pressure test" pistols. About half of these pistols have also the "A" stamped on various locations like the barrel or the grip plates (or both). As described on page 300 of “Lugers At Random” by Kenyon, this is a Mauser (S/42) pressure-test Luger, pieced together with mismatched, unfinished oversize parts off the production line to test chamber pressures. Per Kenyon, less than 10 of these guns were ever produced, and his photographed example is, per him, the only one known to exist, However, our research indicates that eight, and possibly, as many as 10 of these guns are known to exist - it is nonetheless a VERY rare gun. I believe this gun was “liberated” from the production line before the pressure test hole was drilled in the barrel, however it may have never had a hole, there is debate currently as to weather or not all of these guns actually had a hole drilled. . Sans this hole, everything else matches Kenyon’s description, including the “A” marking on the barrel “UB” on the receiver atop the 1939 date and “LW” on the right side of the receiver. The grips are marked “EW” on the right grip and UB, A’ on the left grip. The gun has a rough finish, but overall condition (grips, finish and bore) is 85%. The only history we got on this gun from the seller was that he purchased this piece, and some other guns from the estate of a WWII Veteran who had just passed away. I would like to know what the value of this pistol is. I've been told anything from 10,000 to 25,000. I've even been told its too rare to price. I tried to upload my photos so ill try again later and see if I can get them up. Any help that you guys can give me I would be grateful. Attached Images

02-05-2013, 08:32 PM	#3
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,863 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	Bryan, I look forward to photo's after reading your post. As far as pricing..I have to wonder. To realize the big bucks for even a rare pistol it would have to have great historical or personal interest. One that was a working tool such as this, even if there were few of them does not readily convert to a huge payday IMO. pieced together with mismatched, unfinished oversize parts off the production line to test chamber pressures is of smaller interest that an all matching rare 1944 98% Krieghoff for the same $25.000? While there may be someone interested in a pistol like the one you describe..he would have to be a very esoteric collector with deep pockets. There MAY be a collector out there like that though! __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

02-05-2013, 08:54 PM	#4
240to1919 User Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Its more of a curriosity of value. I know this isnt a Luger in 45 cal but like every historical firearm it has a story... a unique story. And maybe that story will appeal to someone out there eventually. For now Ill settle for an estimated price. Attached Thumbnails

02-05-2013, 09:59 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Kenyon is a good book, but its about 45 yrs old or more... Also "I need help pricing a recently purchased Luger" - if you bought it, then you know the price. I assume you are hoping it is very, very expensive. No gun is impossible to price, obviously you guys bought it, and if you paid almost nothing for it.... Are you Jackson Armory? __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-05-2013, 10:20 PM	#7
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,863 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	From what I can see the top cannon does not match the frame? Can you rundown the matched or mismatched parts? Firing pin, barrel, toggle pin, grips etc? From the description in Kenyon there was a hole in the barrel for this pressure test..This seems to be without as per your description but a further look at serial numbers could shed some light here. Interesting piece. I think for pricing purposes authentication is in order. If the pistol will stand up to a through inspection.. pricing would be worthwhile. If it cannot be authenticated pricing is a moot point. Second to all the serial numbers is to wash out the whiting from the symbols etc. to determine their method of application. Engraved or stamped. That should again shed some light. It seems the theory that this is Mauser S/42 Precision/Accuracy Test Luger is somewhat odd considering that the pistol is made up of a strange combination of mismatched parts? The frame, the top cannon and the sideplate all appear to be mismatched. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

02-05-2013, 10:37 PM	#8
240to1919 User Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ed... No I purchased it from Jackson's and I have actually wanted this piece for a while believe it or not. Read about this particular model while surfing through Luger literature. I bought it for a couple grand and yes I would like this investment to be a wise one... I'm not going to purchase a firearm for a couple thousand and hope its worthless. I wanted the opinion of subject matter experts. In researching the pistol there is a lack of information on this firearm which includes price... Want to make sure I didn't pay too much for something that isn't worth the metal scrapped. Jerry Sounds good. How do I go about authenticating the pistol?

02-05-2013, 10:41 PM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	It is always possible to pick up a 'sleeper' which this one might be. I sure didn't say it was worthless, I said that you were hoping it was very valuable. I have seen too many folks come on with a luger, and they have little knowledge and assume that the gun is very valuable. It sounds like you did some reading ahead of time. Did you ask Joop what he thought it was worth?

02-05-2013, 11:00 PM	#10
240to1919 User Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I've done as much research as I can from a hospital bed lol. I remembered a lot of stuff from research I've done before and since I'm having a hard time finding anymore I've turned to you fine gentleman. I do hope it's worth more than what I purchased but I'm not holding my breath. Again since I've had a hard time finding any info on anything on this pistol let alone what it's worth I turn to Luger forum. I haven't been able to get in contact with him but would love to hear anything he has to say about the firearm.

02-05-2013, 11:28 PM	#11
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,863 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	Bryan, I am sure another Member will see this post and have better knowledge of this particular model than I ever will. My main thrust is to get an accurate look at it. What's under the grips..the various serial numbers and wash off the white on the symbols to see if they are stamped or engraved. Pretty basic stuff to analyze the pistol. That will all be necessary no matter who comes next to give an opinion. Did the pistol come with a magazine? Sometimes very rare or seldom seen pistols can be difficult as there are so few examples to compare them to/with. It would be hard to call up any kind of expert on a pistol where there are so few of them. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

02-06-2013, 07:08 AM	#12
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,043 Thanks: 1,032 Thanked 3,930 Times in 1,194 Posts	Basically, Kenyon's description is a collection of BS. Ignore it. As Joop stated in his book, these pistols were available for the Mauser test firing crew to practice their shooting skills. They were not intended for pressure test purposes at all.

02-06-2013, 10:54 AM	#13
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,863 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	these pistols were available for the Mauser test firing crew to practice their shooting skills. If that's what they are.. and I have no reason to doubt Gerben or Joop..then they wind up being a mismatched shooter Luger with odd markings. Some historical significance but not enough to justify a great deal of money? __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

02-06-2013, 11:15 AM	#14
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Interesting to see if there are mod's. to the sights, how the trigger pull is, if they were extraordinarlily accurate, etc. dju

02-06-2013, 07:00 PM	#15
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,043 Thanks: 1,032 Thanked 3,930 Times in 1,194 Posts	Well, they are bottom of the barrel type pistols which have been shot, shot and shot again and probably have been repaired a zillion times. But they come from the bottom of Mauser's own factory barrel and are rare beasts. They formed part of the production and QA-process at Mauser, so that makes them kinda special.

02-06-2013, 07:45 PM	#16
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,863 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	Gerben, Now we know what they are..Do you have any opinion on what one would be worth? I don't think it's in the $10,000 to $25,000 bracket..even with their rarity and cool markings I can't figure more than $2500 maybe? __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

02-07-2013, 09:47 AM	#17
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	I remember seeing this gun offered by the snake-oil salesmen at Jackson Armory a couple months ago for about $9000.00...please tell us you didnt pay that!

02-07-2013, 11:59 AM	#18
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,863 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	Yikes! __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

02-07-2013, 02:35 PM	#19
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	We are talking the same Luger on this thread..............

02-07-2013, 02:54 PM	#20
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,863 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	Looks like the same one to me. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."