Mainsprings revisited!

G.T. · 08-17-2007, 03:56 PM

Although I've never reloaded a pistol round in my life, I really get into, and appreciate the threads that are about tuning a specific load to a certain Luger pistol, 9mm, .30 cal, light bullets, short bullets, short barrels, long barrels, powder preferences, etc. etc. .. Then there are the group of guys, like me, that don't reload, and have to tune the springs to make the unit function with the ammo at hand, which for the .30 luger doesn't leave much for selection.. From lurking around these discussions on the forum, I am under the impression that the WW2 Mauser 9mm recoil spring is a bit strong for current commercial loads... and i'm pretty much aware that the available after market springs are not a certain cure for recoil sensitive issues. It leads me to the question, what quality and strength of spring is needed for current Luger owners to shoot with a high degree of reliability and minimal wear on the prized P.08? I've talked a bit with Sieger and have a fair grip on what is desired, but i'd like a bit more refreshed feedback, (Especially from you Sieger! I think you already know what would be required, and I've forgotten most of what we discussed )

Anyway, I'm interested in what the forum would have to say on this topic.. Best to all, til...lat'r.....GT

Lugerdoc · 08-18-2007, 09:33 AM

GT, Even with the Wolff "reduced power" spring that they offer for the 7.65mmL, you might have to remove a couple of coils, depending on the pistol. TH

G.T. · 08-18-2007, 09:40 PM

Hi Tom, Thanks for the reply... so it would be safe to assume that just about any original un-altered .30 commercial Luger. using new current readily available .30 commercial ammo, would be originally equipped with too strong a spring... A newly manufactured spring would need to have either a change in the number of coils, or less wire dia. to make it softer....Length changes preload, but it doesn't change rate.. Did Mauser make any 7.65 Lugers during the 1930's and if so, was their recoil spring the same as commercials in the 20's & before?? I'm more interested in overall free length at this point then any other spec... Also, what did Mauser use for the 1970's reintroduction... I think a new Mauser replacement spring might tell us alot?? Maybe not... Best to all, til...lat'r...GT

Sieger · 08-19-2007, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by G.T.
Hi Tom, Thanks for the reply... so it would be safe to assume that just about any original un-altered .30 commercial Luger. using new current readily available .30 commercial ammo, would be originally equipped with too strong a spring... A newly manufactured spring would need to have either a change in the number of coils, or less wire dia. to make it softer....Length changes preload, but it doesn't change rate.. Did Mauser make any 7.65 Lugers during the 1930's and if so, was their recoil spring the same as commercials in the 20's & before?? I'm more interested in overall free length at this point then any other spec... Also, what did Mauser use for the 1970's reintroduction... I think a new Mauser replacement spring might tell us alot?? Maybe not... Best to all, til...lat'r...GT

Dear GT:

Every damned time I write more than just a few lines, my computer fouls-up and I loose it. Such was the case with my response to your questions.

Please call me and we'll discuss all of the secrets of making a Luger shoot. Particularly, we'll discuss the absolute need for proper recoil springs, the original DWM and Mauser specifications, modern Mauser Parabellum springs, etc..

I'd really like to work with you on developing a proper recoil spring, as nothing currently available on the market is adequate.

Sieger

G.T. · 08-19-2007, 07:29 PM

Hey Sieger! I tried to call you today but you must be out playing.. I'll give it another shot from work tomorrow...In the meantime, drop me a private email and we'll get the ball rolling... Best to you, til...lat'r...GT

unspellable · 08-28-2007, 03:15 PM

GT, I sent Sieger the drawings for the original DWM springs.

Cutting coils reduces preload which is really a no no. The preload is critical to the last part of closing the action. The Luger WILL fire when not fully locked. I've demonstrated this with empty primed cases. Having this happen with a fully loade cartrdige doesn't bear thinking about.

For the 9 mm, the stock springs are the way to go. They like standard loads and assuming you have a good magazine, etc. the OAL of the cartridge is the problem area.

The 7.65 spring is a bit softer than the 9 mm spring. Here the problem is that today's store bought ammo IS underloaded. The ideal spring for this wimpy ammo would have the stock preload but less compressed load. The ideal for the individual pistol is when the the lip at the rear most point of the toggle will just consistantly crease a piece of tape on the rear of the frame.

An often misunderstood point is that the spring has almost no influence on the upper's recoil speed. It's first job is to bring the upper to a near stop by the time it hits the rear travel limit.

As Georg said, "The springs have to be right!"

G.T. · 08-28-2007, 06:55 PM

Thanks unspellable! The project is starting to shape up as the team is formed! This is going to be interesting and fun! I know we all have waaaayyy more irons in the fire then we can ever attend to... But this is just plain fun!! Thanks guys... looking forward to working with all! Til....lat'r.......GT

08-17-2007, 03:56 PM	#1
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,486 Thanks: 1,284 Thanked 3,583 Times in 989 Posts	Mainsprings revisited! Although I've never reloaded a pistol round in my life, I really get into, and appreciate the threads that are about tuning a specific load to a certain Luger pistol, 9mm, .30 cal, light bullets, short bullets, short barrels, long barrels, powder preferences, etc. etc. .. Then there are the group of guys, like me, that don't reload, and have to tune the springs to make the unit function with the ammo at hand, which for the .30 luger doesn't leave much for selection.. From lurking around these discussions on the forum, I am under the impression that the WW2 Mauser 9mm recoil spring is a bit strong for current commercial loads... and i'm pretty much aware that the available after market springs are not a certain cure for recoil sensitive issues. It leads me to the question, what quality and strength of spring is needed for current Luger owners to shoot with a high degree of reliability and minimal wear on the prized P.08? I've talked a bit with Sieger and have a fair grip on what is desired, but i'd like a bit more refreshed feedback, (Especially from you Sieger! I think you already know what would be required, and I've forgotten most of what we discussed ) Anyway, I'm interested in what the forum would have to say on this topic.. Best to all, til...lat'r.....GT

08-18-2007, 09:33 AM	#2
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	GT, Even with the Wolff "reduced power" spring that they offer for the 7.65mmL, you might have to remove a couple of coils, depending on the pistol. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

08-18-2007, 09:40 PM	#3
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,486 Thanks: 1,284 Thanked 3,583 Times in 989 Posts	recoil spring Hi Tom, Thanks for the reply... so it would be safe to assume that just about any original un-altered .30 commercial Luger. using new current readily available .30 commercial ammo, would be originally equipped with too strong a spring... A newly manufactured spring would need to have either a change in the number of coils, or less wire dia. to make it softer....Length changes preload, but it doesn't change rate.. Did Mauser make any 7.65 Lugers during the 1930's and if so, was their recoil spring the same as commercials in the 20's & before?? I'm more interested in overall free length at this point then any other spec... Also, what did Mauser use for the 1970's reintroduction... I think a new Mauser replacement spring might tell us alot?? Maybe not... Best to all, til...lat'r...GT

08-19-2007, 07:29 PM	#5
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,486 Thanks: 1,284 Thanked 3,583 Times in 989 Posts	Mainspring! Hey Sieger! I tried to call you today but you must be out playing.. I'll give it another shot from work tomorrow...In the meantime, drop me a private email and we'll get the ball rolling... Best to you, til...lat'r...GT

08-28-2007, 06:55 PM	#7
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,486 Thanks: 1,284 Thanked 3,583 Times in 989 Posts	springs! Thanks unspellable! The project is starting to shape up as the team is formed! This is going to be interesting and fun! I know we all have waaaayyy more irons in the fire then we can ever attend to... But this is just plain fun!! Thanks guys... looking forward to working with all! Til....lat'r.......GT

08-28-2007, 03:15 PM	#6
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 10 Posts	GT, I sent Sieger the drawings for the original DWM springs. Cutting coils reduces preload which is really a no no. The preload is critical to the last part of closing the action. The Luger WILL fire when not fully locked. I've demonstrated this with empty primed cases. Having this happen with a fully loade cartrdige doesn't bear thinking about. For the 9 mm, the stock springs are the way to go. They like standard loads and assuming you have a good magazine, etc. the OAL of the cartridge is the problem area. The 7.65 spring is a bit softer than the 9 mm spring. Here the problem is that today's store bought ammo IS underloaded. The ideal spring for this wimpy ammo would have the stock preload but less compressed load. The ideal for the individual pistol is when the the lip at the rear most point of the toggle will just consistantly crease a piece of tape on the rear of the frame. An often misunderstood point is that the spring has almost no influence on the upper's recoil speed. It's first job is to bring the upper to a near stop by the time it hits the rear travel limit. As Georg said, "The springs have to be right!"