1920s commercial wartime .30 luger

chevy · 09-06-2019, 05:11 PM

One of my dear friends ( gunsmith and former special forces officer) purchased a .30 commercial Luger that was suppose to have been captured in the European Theater of the war. With this pistol was a P38 wartime pistol and holster, a pair of German binoculars with case and a US fighting knife. The Luger was in excellent shape with original nickel plated unmarked wooden base magazine. The Luger also had the GERMANY export mark on the frame. I will send pics as soon as possible. My question to you fine people in the forum would a German officer or enlisted personnel use a .30 Luger ? . It seems highly unlikely to get .30 Luger ammo during a wartime situation. Any other forum members know of captured commercial Lugers? The captured pieces have some paperwork of where and when they were captured.

HerrKaiser · 09-06-2019, 06:23 PM

While not impossible, it’s very very very unlikely that his Luger was taken from a German during the war. That “Germany” stamp is an import mark for sale to foreign civilian markets, most likely for the US market.

.30 Luger was a more prevalent cartridge back then and would have been produced in Germany and Switzerland for Swiss military Lugers and the civilian and export market in Germany.

Most captured commercial Lugers in .30 caliber that are found did not have import marks as they were not needed in the German domestic market and were “liberated” from German houses and offices during the occupation. There were some taken in the capture of very high ranking officers who did have commercial guns as a private purchase sidearm. Those taken from military officers also would more commonly be in 9mm to ease logistical problems in the war.

I hope this helped a little. My first Luger came to me in a similar manner with a similar story, luckily for me I like the look of commercial Lugers and didn’t get ripped off in the purchase.

Doubs · 09-06-2019, 06:29 PM

HerrKaiser pretty much echos my own thoughts. The "Germany" stamp strongly suggests that the Luger was exported to an English speaking country and most likely to the US.

The old saw "Buy the gun; not the story" applies.

mrerick · 09-06-2019, 08:28 PM

The German military did not use .30 Luger (7.65mm) Lugers. Their military firearms were 9mm. When acquired by the military, they were acceptance marked.

The Swiss military did use this caliber.

I believe that there were some civilian agencies (like railway security Reichsbahn police services) that may have had these smaller caliber pistols. You would expect these to be marked as such.

A captured Luger would not normally come back from Germany with a "GERMANY" export mark.

Officers generally did not carry large pistols like Lugers, preferring pocket pistols like the M1914 Mauser and PP Walther.

By 1928, Very few private citizens in Weimar or Nazi Germany had licenses to lawfully possess handguns.

Given these things, the most likely original purchaser of this Luger would have been a commercial customer from a store in the USA or somewhere outside Germany. Any pistol encountered in the war theater was fair game for "capture", but one of those would probably have different markings.

Of course, knowing what was generally true is not the same as being able to factually state it's origin.

Many returning soldiers wanted a "war trophy", and any acquisition of a Luger pistol could fit that bill.

Sergio Natali · 09-07-2019, 06:10 AM

I never dismiss anything outright, and I'm sure that especially at the end of the WWII any German soldier would have probably used any weapon grabbed from the battlefield, but in this case I agree with the above post, and I would add that also here it's not uncommon to hear a seller telling interesting tales while trying to sell a gun, so several P08 Lugers are reported as taken from a "German officer"... better still if he was a member of the SS ...

I bet everybody would be interested to see some pictures of that pistol.

Regards.

Dwight Gruber · 09-07-2019, 10:40 PM

"Germany" or "Made in Germany" was strictly done for the US market, in accordance with the 1890 McKinley Tariff Act.

--Dwight

Edward Tinker · 09-08-2019, 01:13 AM

I finally found my scans

Here are Luftwaffe with a Luger - point is, some officers going into war, did carry a luger or P38
They could be issued a luger prior to going into battle, so I have heard....

Lyn Islaub · 09-12-2019, 04:42 PM

That looks like the tail end of a Ju88 light bomber or a He-111 which would have had enough room inside to carry a full sized pistol. An Me-109 or a FW-190 fighter was way to cramped inside for most pilots to carry anything other than one of the smaller .32 cal. pistols. I've sat in both and they are a very tight fit for someone over 6 ft.

09-06-2019, 05:11 PM	#1
chevy User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: South Carolina Posts: 18 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 3 Posts	1920s commercial wartime .30 luger One of my dear friends ( gunsmith and former special forces officer) purchased a .30 commercial Luger that was suppose to have been captured in the European Theater of the war. With this pistol was a P38 wartime pistol and holster, a pair of German binoculars with case and a US fighting knife. The Luger was in excellent shape with original nickel plated unmarked wooden base magazine. The Luger also had the GERMANY export mark on the frame. I will send pics as soon as possible. My question to you fine people in the forum would a German officer or enlisted personnel use a .30 Luger ? . It seems highly unlikely to get .30 Luger ammo during a wartime situation. Any other forum members know of captured commercial Lugers? The captured pieces have some paperwork of where and when they were captured.

09-06-2019, 06:23 PM	#2
HerrKaiser User Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: South Carolina Posts: 800 Thanks: 750 Thanked 793 Times in 376 Posts	While not impossible, it’s very very very unlikely that his Luger was taken from a German during the war. That “Germany” stamp is an import mark for sale to foreign civilian markets, most likely for the US market. .30 Luger was a more prevalent cartridge back then and would have been produced in Germany and Switzerland for Swiss military Lugers and the civilian and export market in Germany. Most captured commercial Lugers in .30 caliber that are found did not have import marks as they were not needed in the German domestic market and were “liberated” from German houses and offices during the occupation. There were some taken in the capture of very high ranking officers who did have commercial guns as a private purchase sidearm. Those taken from military officers also would more commonly be in 9mm to ease logistical problems in the war. I hope this helped a little. My first Luger came to me in a similar manner with a similar story, luckily for me I like the look of commercial Lugers and didn’t get ripped off in the purchase. __________________ -QM Looking for Mauser S/42 toggle train #22

09-06-2019, 08:28 PM	#4
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	The German military did not use .30 Luger (7.65mm) Lugers. Their military firearms were 9mm. When acquired by the military, they were acceptance marked. The Swiss military did use this caliber. I believe that there were some civilian agencies (like railway security Reichsbahn police services) that may have had these smaller caliber pistols. You would expect these to be marked as such. A captured Luger would not normally come back from Germany with a "GERMANY" export mark. Officers generally did not carry large pistols like Lugers, preferring pocket pistols like the M1914 Mauser and PP Walther. By 1928, Very few private citizens in Weimar or Nazi Germany had licenses to lawfully possess handguns. Given these things, the most likely original purchaser of this Luger would have been a commercial customer from a store in the USA or somewhere outside Germany. Any pistol encountered in the war theater was fair game for "capture", but one of those would probably have different markings. Of course, knowing what was generally true is not the same as being able to factually state it's origin. Many returning soldiers wanted a "war trophy", and any acquisition of a Luger pistol could fit that bill. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

09-07-2019, 06:10 AM	#5
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	I never dismiss anything outright, and I'm sure that especially at the end of the WWII any German soldier would have probably used any weapon grabbed from the battlefield, but in this case I agree with the above post, and I would add that also here it's not uncommon to hear a seller telling interesting tales while trying to sell a gun, so several P08 Lugers are reported as taken from a "German officer"... better still if he was a member of the SS ... I bet everybody would be interested to see some pictures of that pistol. Regards. __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

09-08-2019, 01:13 AM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	I finally found my scans Here are Luftwaffe with a Luger - point is, some officers going into war, did carry a luger or P38 They could be issued a luger prior to going into battle, so I have heard.... Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

09-06-2019, 06:29 PM	#3
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	HerrKaiser pretty much echos my own thoughts. The "Germany" stamp strongly suggests that the Luger was exported to an English speaking country and most likely to the US. The old saw "Buy the gun; not the story" applies.

09-07-2019, 10:40 PM	#6
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	"Germany" or "Made in Germany" was strictly done for the US market, in accordance with the 1890 McKinley Tariff Act. --Dwight

09-12-2019, 04:42 PM	#8
Lyn Islaub Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 435 Thanks: 3 Thanked 152 Times in 72 Posts	That looks like the tail end of a Ju88 light bomber or a He-111 which would have had enough room inside to carry a full sized pistol. An Me-109 or a FW-190 fighter was way to cramped inside for most pilots to carry anything other than one of the smaller .32 cal. pistols. I've sat in both and they are a very tight fit for someone over 6 ft.