HK logo

drbuster · 10-25-2003, 01:57 PM

Was wondering if any of our knowlegable HK folks know how the dagger/anchor logo came to be and on what it was stamped. Besides the toggles of HK P08's, the cover of Gibson's book (!), a few loading tools (? felt to be fakes), etc., was it stamped on their machine guns? Did it originate from the family's coat of arms? Would like to hear any thoughts as this information seems hard to come by. I don't believe that it was stamped on holsters originally.

John D. · 10-25-2003, 04:46 PM

Hey Doc,

I'll let someone take a stab on the HK logo question, but I'll e-mail you privately with my reply as to it's first use, when it was established, and it's "root". It will take me some time to write it, and today is Saturday, and

Well - it's the weekend!!!!

As well, the FG/MG machine guns had the acceptance stamps - not the Dagger/Anchor logo. They were marked with "fzs" as the manufacturers code ("Heinrich Krieghoff Waffenfabrik, Suhl "fzs"").

The loading tools stamped with the logo are fakes - very cute, certainly - but fakes. HK loading tools are stamped with the LWaA 2 - not the logo.

As to the holsters, if you are referring to the deravitive and larger "H (dagger) K" logo, no, they are not all fakes (but MANY, if not most you see today on e-Bay - are fakes), but that logo use, although limited - is acknowledged under certain conditions would have properly passed through the HK facility.

Anyway - I'll add more when I can, as today - I'm supposed to be doing "yard work" - NOT on the computer (ask Jen

)

drbuster · 10-25-2003, 07:08 PM

Always appreciate your responses, John D. I would like to be doing yard work, but around here it's 90 degrees plus (October is always one of our warmest months, plus fire danger). In your neck of the woods, it's cool and crisp. Take advantage, there's plenty of time. Since I have no other way to "learn the facts" re the HK logo, I will gladly wait for your words.

John D. · 10-25-2003, 09:10 PM

Hi Doc,

You have a LONG e-mail (and copied to you PM (as your e-mail bounced??!!!) - so check your PMs...)... Sorry about the length - but enjoy!!!

Ron Wood · 10-25-2003, 09:21 PM

John,
Giving some others a chance to take a stab at the HK logo origin is commendable since it encourages wider participation. However, selfishly I would request that after some others have had a wack at it, you would present your info (perhaps condensed or the whole nine yards, as you please). Thanks

Edward Tinker · 10-25-2003, 10:14 PM

hole nein yards pleaze

Ed

John D. · 10-25-2003, 11:06 PM

Ed - there are far too many words for you to read - and NO PICTURES!!!..

Ron - check your PMs in a minute, OK? My thanks.

John D.

Edward Tinker · 10-25-2003, 11:11 PM

a'l read it hare whuns you finaly posts it

drbuster · 10-26-2003, 01:07 AM

John. D., please check your private messages.

Russ · 11-16-2003, 12:22 AM

Hi Doc
Check your PM's

Russ

Lugerdoc · 11-16-2003, 11:31 AM

Herb, I suppose that you know the origin of the KH logo: Kreig (War) Hoff (Anchor). I recall seeing one E/2 Luffwaffe accepted holster years ago that had the HK marking ink stamped inside on the leather. I believe that this was a quality control stamp applied to the leather sheet, before the holster was actually assembled. TH

John D. · 11-17-2003, 11:32 AM

Hi Tom,

I'm not quite sure where you got "hoff" means Anchor, but the closest word to "hoff" that I know of is "hoffe", which I believe means "hope"...? I thought anchor was "anker" or "klammer"..? I'll have to find a German dictionary somewhere..!!!

Best to you,

John D.

Roadkill · 11-17-2003, 08:37 PM

Kreighoff means "place or home of war".

rk

Pete Ebbink · 11-17-2003, 09:00 PM

Guys,

This thread has run since 10-25-03...isn't it about time that yo'all post the stuff that has been going back and forth via PM's and emails here on the Forum so we can all share in that knowledge...?

Thanks so much !

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Ron Wood · 11-17-2003, 09:50 PM

Actually Pete, it is spelled y'all, and it means only one person. For plural it is "all y'all".

John D. · 11-17-2003, 10:15 PM

Hey RK..!

As you know - Krieghoff is a "family name" with roots back to the 1400s, as far as I can trace - they may go further. The Coat of Arms of the Krieghoff family has a different Latin based transcription as to the name/motto - and an emblem that is different then the HK toggle logo that was only used for a brief period in time given the Krieghoff manufacturing history (which still continues, as you know). In fact - there is little similarity between the Latin based motto/design and the toggle Logo. Also - I believe "haus" is "house/home"? So - wouldn't it would be "Kreighaus" - even in the old dialect...??

I'll submit that "hoff" has nothing to do with the logo design nor the name "KRIEGHOFF" as it's executed on the HK Luger logo design - but then again - neither does "KRIEG" as translated as "war"...

Just "y'all" back here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Lugerdoc · 11-18-2003, 12:11 PM

I appologize for my definition of Hoff as anchor. Randall Gibson says on page 86 of his "The Krieghoff Parabellum" that HOFFEN (hope) and the anchor is symbolic of hope. TH.

Roadkill · 11-18-2003, 02:33 PM

Amazing where these things go sometimes, but in many cases there are simple reasons for things. Krieghoff- place of war-weapons manufacture, maybe somewhere way back these folks were called that because that's where they made that stuff. Possible not but that's too much of a coincidence. Another example is Herr Langenbach, the name means "long creek". Ref dialects, these can vary greatly from town to town, much less from state /region to region.
But then most names are just names. But if the Kreighoff family had made ox carts...........

rk

10-25-2003, 01:57 PM	#1
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	HK logo Was wondering if any of our knowlegable HK folks know how the dagger/anchor logo came to be and on what it was stamped. Besides the toggles of HK P08's, the cover of Gibson's book (!), a few loading tools (? felt to be fakes), etc., was it stamped on their machine guns? Did it originate from the family's coat of arms? Would like to hear any thoughts as this information seems hard to come by. I don't believe that it was stamped on holsters originally.

10-25-2003, 09:21 PM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,019 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,173 Times in 1,701 Posts	John, Giving some others a chance to take a stab at the HK logo origin is commendable since it encourages wider participation. However, selfishly I would request that after some others have had a wack at it, you would present your info (perhaps condensed or the whole nine yards, as you please). Thanks __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

10-25-2003, 10:14 PM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,929 Thanks: 2,029 Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts	hole nein yards pleaze Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-25-2003, 11:11 PM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,929 Thanks: 2,029 Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts	a'l read it hare whuns you finaly posts it __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-16-2003, 12:22 AM	#10
Russ User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Reading, PA. Posts: 628 Thanks: 2 Thanked 38 Times in 10 Posts	Hi Doc Check your PM's Russ __________________ Livin the dream!!!!!!!!!!!

10-25-2003, 04:46 PM	#2
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 477 Thanked 515 Times in 128 Posts	Hey Doc, I'll let someone take a stab on the HK logo question, but I'll e-mail you privately with my reply as to it's first use, when it was established, and it's "root". It will take me some time to write it, and today is Saturday, and Well - it's the weekend!!!! As well, the FG/MG machine guns had the acceptance stamps - not the Dagger/Anchor logo. They were marked with "fzs" as the manufacturers code ("Heinrich Krieghoff Waffenfabrik, Suhl "fzs""). The loading tools stamped with the logo are fakes - very cute, certainly - but fakes. HK loading tools are stamped with the LWaA 2 - not the logo. As to the holsters, if you are referring to the deravitive and larger "H (dagger) K" logo, no, they are not all fakes (but MANY, if not most you see today on e-Bay - are fakes), but that logo use, although limited - is acknowledged under certain conditions would have properly passed through the HK facility. Anyway - I'll add more when I can, as today - I'm supposed to be doing "yard work" - NOT on the computer (ask Jen )

10-25-2003, 07:08 PM	#3
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Always appreciate your responses, John D. I would like to be doing yard work, but around here it's 90 degrees plus (October is always one of our warmest months, plus fire danger). In your neck of the woods, it's cool and crisp. Take advantage, there's plenty of time. Since I have no other way to "learn the facts" re the HK logo, I will gladly wait for your words.

10-25-2003, 09:10 PM	#4
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 477 Thanked 515 Times in 128 Posts	Hi Doc, You have a LONG e-mail (and copied to you PM (as your e-mail bounced??!!!) - so check your PMs...)... Sorry about the length - but enjoy!!!

10-25-2003, 11:06 PM	#7
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 477 Thanked 515 Times in 128 Posts	Ed - there are far too many words for you to read - and NO PICTURES!!!.. Ron - check your PMs in a minute, OK? My thanks. John D.

10-26-2003, 01:07 AM	#9
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	John. D., please check your private messages.

11-16-2003, 11:31 AM	#11
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Herb, I suppose that you know the origin of the KH logo: Kreig (War) Hoff (Anchor). I recall seeing one E/2 Luffwaffe accepted holster years ago that had the HK marking ink stamped inside on the leather. I believe that this was a quality control stamp applied to the leather sheet, before the holster was actually assembled. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

11-17-2003, 11:32 AM	#12
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 477 Thanked 515 Times in 128 Posts	Hi Tom, I'm not quite sure where you got "hoff" means Anchor, but the closest word to "hoff" that I know of is "hoffe", which I believe means "hope"...? I thought anchor was "anker" or "klammer"..? I'll have to find a German dictionary somewhere..!!! Best to you, John D.

11-17-2003, 08:37 PM	#13
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Kreighoff means "place or home of war". rk

11-17-2003, 09:00 PM	#14
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Guys, This thread has run since 10-25-03...isn't it about time that yo'all post the stuff that has been going back and forth via PM's and emails here on the Forum so we can all share in that knowledge...? Thanks so much ! Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

11-17-2003, 09:50 PM	#15
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,019 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,173 Times in 1,701 Posts	Actually Pete, it is spelled y'all, and it means only one person. For plural it is "all y'all". __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

11-17-2003, 10:15 PM	#16
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 477 Thanked 515 Times in 128 Posts	Hey RK..! As you know - Krieghoff is a "family name" with roots back to the 1400s, as far as I can trace - they may go further. The Coat of Arms of the Krieghoff family has a different Latin based transcription as to the name/motto - and an emblem that is different then the HK toggle logo that was only used for a brief period in time given the Krieghoff manufacturing history (which still continues, as you know). In fact - there is little similarity between the Latin based motto/design and the toggle Logo. Also - I believe "haus" is "house/home"? So - wouldn't it would be "Kreighaus" - even in the old dialect...?? I'll submit that "hoff" has nothing to do with the logo design nor the name "KRIEGHOFF" as it's executed on the HK Luger logo design - but then again - neither does "KRIEG" as translated as "war"... Just "y'all" back here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

11-18-2003, 12:11 PM	#17
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	I appologize for my definition of Hoff as anchor. Randall Gibson says on page 86 of his "The Krieghoff Parabellum" that HOFFEN (hope) and the anchor is symbolic of hope. TH. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

11-18-2003, 02:33 PM	#18
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Amazing where these things go sometimes, but in many cases there are simple reasons for things. Krieghoff- place of war-weapons manufacture, maybe somewhere way back these folks were called that because that's where they made that stuff. Possible not but that's too much of a coincidence. Another example is Herr Langenbach, the name means "long creek". Ref dialects, these can vary greatly from town to town, much less from state /region to region. But then most names are just names. But if the Kreighoff family had made ox carts........... rk