Holster Mystery!

lugerholsterrepair · 05-05-2011, 03:31 PM

Gentleman, I just bought a stunning dark chocolate or cordovan Luger holster! It is finely crafted with tighter stitching than you normally see on a Military which makes me think of a commercial.

It’s only marking is on the underside of the top in the suede right above the magazine pouch. Stamped in deep block letters

R.B.D.
Wt. (B)

Got any idea what that might stand for?

sheepherder · 05-05-2011, 05:44 PM

I'm probably the only one, but I would like to see pics of it...I like brown holsters...

Don M · 05-05-2011, 07:56 PM

Jerry, the R.B.D. stands for Reichsbahndirektion. I need to do a little research to figure out the location abbreviated as Wt. (B). I'd love to see photos as well.

sheepherder · 05-05-2011, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don M

Jerry, the R.B.D. stands for Reichsbahndirektion...

= National Railroad management?...Interesting...

lugerholsterrepair · 05-05-2011, 08:27 PM

Don, Thanks! That's what I thought at first but was wanting someone like you for confirmation. The D threw me..I was thinking Reichsbahn but what was the D? I have never seen a marking like this so a little out of my league.

Ron Smith on Jan's Forum came to the same conclusion.

By the way, this one is in the WW1 configuration.

Thanks..I am satisfied that it is possibly, probably Reichsbahn. Would be a heck of a nice holster for a Reichsbahn pistol! Wish I had one...

I will see if I can post some photo's.

Don M · 05-05-2011, 10:39 PM

Jerry, if you have a copy of History Writ in Steel, there is a discussion of these units on pp. 312-16.

John Sabato · 05-06-2011, 11:21 AM

Jerry, please have Ellie post some photos of the holster when she gets a chance. It sounds like a dusey!

lugerholsterrepair · 05-06-2011, 01:01 PM

Don, Unfortunately I have not yet aquired a copy of your fine book..it is on my to do list!

John, Ellie is working on photo's as we speak, they are on their way!

wlyon · 05-06-2011, 04:19 PM

Jerry
Good looking leather. Bill

cirelaw · 05-06-2011, 04:33 PM

Jerry I commend You on both your stitching and now your photography. On a more personal note I don't know where I would be today without your referral. Your are definitly a Gentleman and a leather extraudinaire. Behing every man thank God you have her, Ellie! your golden thimble!

Edward Tinker · 05-07-2011, 03:39 AM

Some Reichsbahn pictures of Jerry Burney's because the upload feature has an anti-JB affect on him

lugerholsterrepair · 05-07-2011, 10:08 AM

Thanks Ed! Your a Prince!

Jerry

Vlim · 05-07-2011, 10:27 AM

Hi Jerry,

Found a couple of possible explanations for the Wt. (B) abbreviation.
The best one existed only for a few months in what was to become Eastern-Germany shortly after. The Reichsbahn Directorate at Wittenberge (Brandenburg).

This Reichsbahndirectorate existed in Eastern-Germany for a very short time, from 15 August to 30 September 1945.

Another option is that it refers to Württemberg-Baden, a sector that existed under US control between 1945 - 1952. It merged with Baden and Württemberg-Hohenzollern to form the current Baden-Württemberg state.

It took a while before the Deutsche Reichsbahn was renamed Deutsche Bundesbahn, which may also explain the use of the R.B.D. abbreviation in the period after the war.

Lugerdoc · 05-07-2011, 10:34 AM

Jerry, I would read the marking under the R.B.D. as WL (B) prossibly B for Berlin with a ding under the "L" that extends under the (W) that makes the L appear to be crossed at the top. I hope that this might lead to a plausible translation. TH

Vlim · 05-07-2011, 10:50 AM

Tom,

Using a letter between brackets, like the (B) in this example, is usually done in the German language to refer to a state. This basically leaves the states of Baden and Brandenburg as viable suspects. If it was Berlin, they would have omitted the brackets, and possibly added the location within berlin, like N.W. for 'North-West', etc..

This practice of adding an indication of state or other geographic location was done because of the confusion that may result because of the existence of double (or even multiple) names of location in the German empire. We see this in the address references of DWM and Mauser also. Mauser always uses Oberndorf am Neckar in order to differentiate it from Oberndorf in Rheinland-Pfalz and Oberndorf in Tirol.

DWM's Karlsruhe branch always refers to itself as DWM in Karlsruhe, Baden
Ludwig Loewe & Cie and DWM in Berlin always added N.W. to the Berlin name. (Berlin Nord-West).

Anyway, this practice of referring to the state or area in order to avoid confusion makes me believe that the (B) refers to a state or area. Not that it helped much

Don M · 05-07-2011, 12:17 PM

Gerben, et al. - on the parallel thread on Jan Still's site, Klaus Merzbach provides an excellent list of Reichsbahndirektionen as of 1927. One of them is Elberfeld which in 1929-30 was consolidated with its neighbor Barmen and renamed Wuppertal. If the holster was stamped in 1930 or later, the marking could be from the Wuppertal Directorate located in Barmen.

tomaustin · 05-07-2011, 12:23 PM

all letters have sharp corners and the "L" is rounded. an L only if he used a different font......my two cents..

Vlim · 05-07-2011, 12:38 PM

Don, sounds like a good explanation also.

05-05-2011, 03:31 PM	#1
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,855 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	Holster Mystery! Gentleman, I just bought a stunning dark chocolate or cordovan Luger holster! It is finely crafted with tighter stitching than you normally see on a Military which makes me think of a commercial. It’s only marking is on the underside of the top in the suede right above the magazine pouch. Stamped in deep block letters R.B.D. Wt. (B) Got any idea what that might stand for? __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

05-05-2011, 05:44 PM	#2
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	I'm probably the only one, but I would like to see pics of it...I like brown holsters... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

05-05-2011, 07:56 PM	#3
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Jerry, the R.B.D. stands for Reichsbahndirektion. I need to do a little research to figure out the location abbreviated as Wt. (B). I'd love to see photos as well. __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

05-05-2011, 08:27 PM	#5
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,855 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	Don, Thanks! That's what I thought at first but was wanting someone like you for confirmation. The D threw me..I was thinking Reichsbahn but what was the D? I have never seen a marking like this so a little out of my league. Ron Smith on Jan's Forum came to the same conclusion. By the way, this one is in the WW1 configuration. Thanks..I am satisfied that it is possibly, probably Reichsbahn. Would be a heck of a nice holster for a Reichsbahn pistol! Wish I had one... I will see if I can post some photo's. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

05-05-2011, 10:39 PM	#6
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Jerry, if you have a copy of History Writ in Steel, there is a discussion of these units on pp. 312-16. __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

05-06-2011, 11:21 AM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Jerry, please have Ellie post some photos of the holster when she gets a chance. It sounds like a dusey! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-06-2011, 01:01 PM	#8
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,855 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	Don, Unfortunately I have not yet aquired a copy of your fine book..it is on my to do list! John, Ellie is working on photo's as we speak, they are on their way! Attached Images __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

05-06-2011, 04:19 PM	#9
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,617 Thanks: 3,141 Thanked 2,523 Times in 940 Posts	Jerry Good looking leather. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

05-06-2011, 04:33 PM	#10
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Jerry I commend You on both your stitching and now your photography. On a more personal note I don't know where I would be today without your referral. Your are definitly a Gentleman and a leather extraudinaire. Behing every man thank God you have her, Ellie! your golden thimble!

05-07-2011, 03:39 AM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,912 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	Some Reichsbahn pictures of Jerry Burney's because the upload feature has an anti-JB affect on him Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

05-07-2011, 10:08 AM	#12
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,855 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	Thanks Ed! Your a Prince! Jerry __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

05-07-2011, 10:27 AM	#13
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,035 Thanks: 1,020 Thanked 3,889 Times in 1,187 Posts	Hi Jerry, Found a couple of possible explanations for the Wt. (B) abbreviation. The best one existed only for a few months in what was to become Eastern-Germany shortly after. The Reichsbahn Directorate at Wittenberge (Brandenburg). This Reichsbahndirectorate existed in Eastern-Germany for a very short time, from 15 August to 30 September 1945. Another option is that it refers to Württemberg-Baden, a sector that existed under US control between 1945 - 1952. It merged with Baden and Württemberg-Hohenzollern to form the current Baden-Württemberg state. It took a while before the Deutsche Reichsbahn was renamed Deutsche Bundesbahn, which may also explain the use of the R.B.D. abbreviation in the period after the war.

05-07-2011, 10:34 AM	#14
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Jerry, I would read the marking under the R.B.D. as WL (B) prossibly B for Berlin with a ding under the "L" that extends under the (W) that makes the L appear to be crossed at the top. I hope that this might lead to a plausible translation. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

05-07-2011, 10:50 AM	#15
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,035 Thanks: 1,020 Thanked 3,889 Times in 1,187 Posts	Tom, Using a letter between brackets, like the (B) in this example, is usually done in the German language to refer to a state. This basically leaves the states of Baden and Brandenburg as viable suspects. If it was Berlin, they would have omitted the brackets, and possibly added the location within berlin, like N.W. for 'North-West', etc.. This practice of adding an indication of state or other geographic location was done because of the confusion that may result because of the existence of double (or even multiple) names of location in the German empire. We see this in the address references of DWM and Mauser also. Mauser always uses Oberndorf am Neckar in order to differentiate it from Oberndorf in Rheinland-Pfalz and Oberndorf in Tirol. DWM's Karlsruhe branch always refers to itself as DWM in Karlsruhe, Baden Ludwig Loewe & Cie and DWM in Berlin always added N.W. to the Berlin name. (Berlin Nord-West). Anyway, this practice of referring to the state or area in order to avoid confusion makes me believe that the (B) refers to a state or area. Not that it helped much

05-07-2011, 12:17 PM	#16
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Gerben, et al. - on the parallel thread on Jan Still's site, Klaus Merzbach provides an excellent list of Reichsbahndirektionen as of 1927. One of them is Elberfeld which in 1929-30 was consolidated with its neighbor Barmen and renamed Wuppertal. If the holster was stamped in 1930 or later, the marking could be from the Wuppertal Directorate located in Barmen. __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

05-07-2011, 12:23 PM	#17
tomaustin Lifer X5 Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: texas Posts: 708 Thanks: 87 Thanked 522 Times in 201 Posts	that "L" doesn't have the style of the other letters all letters have sharp corners and the "L" is rounded. an L only if he used a different font......my two cents..

05-07-2011, 12:38 PM	#18
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,035 Thanks: 1,020 Thanked 3,889 Times in 1,187 Posts	Don, sounds like a good explanation also.