30 cal bullets

Rick W. · 07-18-2002, 10:28 PM

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unspellable · 07-19-2002, 12:17 AM

I have a friend who does a lot of bullet casting. (Sells 'em in several stores in the area.) He is not too fond of the Lee molds. Favours Lyman or RCBS.

I haven't done very much casting myself.

In general, you want to run them through a sizing die after casting. Slug your barrel, round up to the nearest thousandth, and that's your sizing die. For example, a 0.3105 groove diameter calls for a 0.311 sizing die. If the barrel ie 0.3100 go for the 0.311 sizing die. A cast bullet wants to be a tad oversized. This may or may not effect the size of the expander plug in your loading dies.

Hugh · 07-19-2002, 02:14 AM

I have cast bullets with both aluminum and steel molds. I much prefer the steel ones. Aluminum conducts heat better than steel, and therefore the alum. ones take longer to heat up to casting temp, which results in more imperfect bullets to begin with. <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

Marvin · 07-19-2002, 07:41 AM

Rick,

I used to cast a lot of lead bullets and I had a few Lee Molds. I Have to agree with Hugh that the cast iron type from Lyman are the best. The aluminum molds seemed to "frost" the bullets more than the cast iron ones and i wanted them to look good too. As far as the bullet itself, I had no problems wih them.

The cast iron molds take a little more protectin from rust and this causes you to clean them well before casting. I still agree with Hugh; go with the cast iron type.

Marvin

Thor · 07-19-2002, 09:51 AM

I have always wanted to try resizing those .311 and .312 diameter 71 gr FMJ 32 ACP bullets like those sold by Sierra and Hornady down to .310 or even .309 to see how they shoot in the 30 Luger. Hugh can drive the 60 gr Gold Dot HP fast enough to work the action so I would imagine a good dose of unique would work fine. Hugh, have you tested these bullets yet in your 30s?

G.T. · 07-19-2002, 10:20 AM

Hi Rick, Have you looked into swageing? When I was a kid,(late 50's) my dad had me swage .22 cal bullets for the 222's and the 220 swift, I did buckets full! I was too young to set up the machine, but I would cut the lead wire and put the jacket over it and swage it...one way for soft points, the other way (upside down) for solids! a little less lead yeilded hollow points.... we would weigh them after we were done...and sort them by weight! I remember it was effortless, and fun! till...later...G.T. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

AGE · 07-19-2002, 10:26 AM

I did a little bullet casting in .38 and .45 using Lee aluminum molds. They worked OK, I still have them. Never tried 9mm or .30. If you sit the mold on top of the furnace for awhile to heat up before casting they work better.

Casting bullets is a lot of work and makes the little woman upset--can be smelly. Also the lead is toxic. I can buy good cast .45s for $33/1000 and .38s for $25. I won't cast anymore as long as I can buy for these prices.

Hugh · 07-19-2002, 10:30 AM

<img src="graemlins/wave.gif" border="0" alt="[byebye]" /> Rick,

Lyman/Ideal used to list the following two molds for the 30 Luger & Mauser:

#311227=93gr & #311245=90gr

Maybe you can find one of these somewhere, sounds like what you are looking for.
<img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />

Doubs · 07-19-2002, 12:41 PM

I've cast many thousands of bullets for both rifle and pistol. My molds include iron/steel and aluminum. (That's "aluminium" for our English-speaking friends.) The makers of my molds include RCBS, Lyman, SAECO, Lee and NEI. My own personal favorites are the aluminum molds by NEI. The spru cutter on the NEI molds are the best I've used while Lyman has, IMO, the poorest. I have a custom-made mold for a 95 grain truncated cone bullet that I use in the .30 Luger.

An aluminum mold can be pre-heated by sticking the lower forward end into the molten lead for about 20 seconds. The lead will not stick to the mold block.

When casting, I keep a half-round sponge in a shallow pan of water that keeps the sponge damp. I turn the filled mold upside down and press the spru cutter against the damp sponge to cool the cutter and the spru. That gives a cleaner cut without smearing lead on the underside of the cutter. The bullets are then dropped into a shallow pan of cold water. The cold water tempers the bullet surface and makes it harder.

I keep a hammer handle available to tap the mold handle bolt that acts as the pivot point for opening and closing the molds. Tapping is necessary to make bullets drop from the mold. NEVER tap or hit the mold blocks! Turn the mold over after cutting the spru and with the cutter to one side, open the blocks and tap the handle bolt until the bullets drop into the water pan.

As a matter of safety, keep the damp sponge container and the drop pan of water a safe distance from the molten lead. A single drop of water into the lead will cause an instant "explosion" of molten lead. ALWAYS wear a long sleeve shirt, leather gloves and eye protection when casting. Good ventilation is also a must.

Fluxing the molten lead mixture is important. It keeps the lead/tin/antimony properly mixed and also brings impurities to the surface to be skimmed off. While beeswax will work as a flux, it's smokey and gives off a greasy film that will coat nearby things. I prefer "Marvel-flux" that's available from Brownells.

There are excellent books and articles available for bullet casting. Lyman's "Cast Bullet Book" is one you'll probably want. Casting is another hobby that can get as complicated as you want to make it.

John Sabato · 07-19-2002, 01:09 PM

I remember that there used to be a swaging tool for manufacturing .22 caliber jacketed softnose slugs out of empty .22 caliber cases and cut solder... Any of you other old-timers remember that rig? I don't remember who manufactured it, but I remember using one back in my gunsmith apprentice days...

It worked great for shootin' ammo, but for bench rest you might want to use components with a little more quality control [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]biggrin.gif[/img] <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />

Doubs · 07-19-2002, 02:08 PM

John, the big name in swaged bullets used to be Corbin. I haven't looked into swaged bullets in some time and I don't know if they're still in business or not.

G.T. · 07-19-2002, 09:14 PM

Hi Rick, I think you would be well served by swaging... as I remember, the bullets looked every bit as nice as commercially made bullets, and even though you cut the lead wire off in a bench mounted cutoff tool, they were quite accurate, with very little variance... with the added plus of, no subsequent sizing, lube, or leading.... you just swage, weigh, and load... I believe they will make any die you specify.... let me know what you find out, as I think swaged bullets would cost far less then factory... Of course, you have to write the initial set up off as experimental prototype tooling...or just fun! till...later...G.T.

G.T. · 07-24-2002, 12:13 AM

Hi Rick! Yes, I think getting the correct components might be a problem? Although I think they would offer jackets in other calibers that might suffice... I think the lead bullet swaging they are talking about would probably refer to swaging a cast lead bullet instead of sizing? Not for sure, but it would have its advantages.... let me know as you go, as I have the tug to revisit bullet swaging also....best of luck! till....later....G.T.

Hugh · 07-24-2002, 02:28 AM

I got a price list from Corbin several years ago, and even then it cost a small fortune to get set up for swaging in just one caliber. They appear to aimed at the person wanting to produce a large quantity of bullets for retailing, rather than a small amount for personal use. Unless of course, you have several hundred $ laying around not drawing any interest that you want to put to practical use. <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

AGE · 07-24-2002, 12:35 PM

Rick,

Ont thing to keep in mind is the hardness of your bullets. As long as you plan on using jackets, swaging might be OK. Without jackets, swaged bullets tend to be soft. My guess is hardened lead like you can cast bullets with would be too tough to swage. Soft lead bullets (bare) will lead up your gun(s) fast with anything but the lightest loads.

The Wizard · 07-25-2002, 02:09 PM

Here is some information regarding the 7,65 mm Parabellum bullet straight from the horse's mouth. I have a drawing from NAMMO (Nordic Ammunition Company) Small Arms Division Product Development Lapua Team detailing the 7,65 mm Parabellum bullet. It give the diameter of the bullett as 7,83 +0.00/-0.02 mm (.3080 +.0000/-.0008 inches). Just thought someone might be interested.

Doubs · 07-25-2002, 03:00 PM

[quote]Originally posted by The Wizard:
<strong>Here is some information regarding the 7,65 mm Parabellum bullet straight from the horse's mouth. I have a drawing from NAMMO (Nordic Ammunition Company) Small Arms Division Product Development Lapua Team detailing the 7,65 mm Parabellum bullet. It give the diameter of the bullett as 7,83 +0.00/-0.02 mm (.3080 +.0000/-.0008 inches). Just thought someone might be interested.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Perhaps NAMMO is producing bullets for the newer guns in 7.65mm. Both my Browning Hi-Power and my Bennelli B-80 have .308" groove diameters. My original Lugers are in the .310" - .311" range. A box of 93 grain Norma bullets that I bought back in the late 1960's were .309". I routinely swage .312" bullets down to .310" for use in my Lugers.

I'm waiting now for a rebarreled "cannon" to arrive from Hugh Clark who installed a new Numrich 6 inch barrel in .30 Luger. The picture he sent shows a REALLY nice-looking setup. (To my eyes, a six inch tube on the Luger is the perfect balance for looks.) I'm pretty sure the new barrel will be bored for .308" bullets but I'll check it just to be certain.

Hugh · 07-25-2002, 04:57 PM

I just bought this mold and am anxiously awaiting its arrival. It is a 93 gr HP .311 for the 30 Luger. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

Doubs · 07-25-2002, 11:18 PM

Hugh, posting something like that hollowpoint mold just isn't very nice! To say I'm envious is putting it mildly! Let us know how it works and how the bullets shoot.... should be interesting.

Now, I'm just gonna go to the corner of my den and..... <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />

Thor · 07-26-2002, 12:05 AM

Hey Hugh, if those work good, I will buy a 100 bullets from you! Would you size mine .310" please! <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />

07-18-2002, 10:28 PM	#1
Rick W. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 339 Thanks: 81 Thanked 359 Times in 198 Posts	30 cal bullets i

07-19-2002, 09:51 AM	#5
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	I have always wanted to try resizing those .311 and .312 diameter 71 gr FMJ 32 ACP bullets like those sold by Sierra and Hornady down to .310 or even .309 to see how they shoot in the 30 Luger. Hugh can drive the 60 gr Gold Dot HP fast enough to work the action so I would imagine a good dose of unique would work fine. Hugh, have you tested these bullets yet in your 30s? __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

07-19-2002, 10:26 AM	#7
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I did a little bullet casting in .38 and .45 using Lee aluminum molds. They worked OK, I still have them. Never tried 9mm or .30. If you sit the mold on top of the furnace for awhile to heat up before casting they work better. Casting bullets is a lot of work and makes the little woman upset--can be smelly. Also the lead is toxic. I can buy good cast .45s for $33/1000 and .38s for $25. I won't cast anymore as long as I can buy for these prices. __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

07-19-2002, 10:30 AM	#8
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	<img src="graemlins/wave.gif" border="0" alt="[byebye]" /> Rick, Lyman/Ideal used to list the following two molds for the 30 Luger & Mauser: #311227=93gr & #311245=90gr Maybe you can find one of these somewhere, sounds like what you are looking for. <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" /> __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

07-19-2002, 01:09 PM	#10
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I remember that there used to be a swaging tool for manufacturing .22 caliber jacketed softnose slugs out of empty .22 caliber cases and cut solder... Any of you other old-timers remember that rig? I don't remember who manufactured it, but I remember using one back in my gunsmith apprentice days... It worked great for shootin' ammo, but for bench rest you might want to use components with a little more quality control [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]biggrin.gif[/img] <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-19-2002, 12:17 AM	#2
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 10 Posts	I have a friend who does a lot of bullet casting. (Sells 'em in several stores in the area.) He is not too fond of the Lee molds. Favours Lyman or RCBS. I haven't done very much casting myself. In general, you want to run them through a sizing die after casting. Slug your barrel, round up to the nearest thousandth, and that's your sizing die. For example, a 0.3105 groove diameter calls for a 0.311 sizing die. If the barrel ie 0.3100 go for the 0.311 sizing die. A cast bullet wants to be a tad oversized. This may or may not effect the size of the expander plug in your loading dies.

07-19-2002, 02:14 AM	#3
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	I have cast bullets with both aluminum and steel molds. I much prefer the steel ones. Aluminum conducts heat better than steel, and therefore the alum. ones take longer to heat up to casting temp, which results in more imperfect bullets to begin with. <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" /> __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

07-19-2002, 07:41 AM	#4
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Rick, I used to cast a lot of lead bullets and I had a few Lee Molds. I Have to agree with Hugh that the cast iron type from Lyman are the best. The aluminum molds seemed to "frost" the bullets more than the cast iron ones and i wanted them to look good too. As far as the bullet itself, I had no problems wih them. The cast iron molds take a little more protectin from rust and this causes you to clean them well before casting. I still agree with Hugh; go with the cast iron type. Marvin

07-19-2002, 10:20 AM	#6
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,485 Thanks: 1,283 Thanked 3,581 Times in 989 Posts	Hi Rick, Have you looked into swageing? When I was a kid,(late 50's) my dad had me swage .22 cal bullets for the 222's and the 220 swift, I did buckets full! I was too young to set up the machine, but I would cut the lead wire and put the jacket over it and swage it...one way for soft points, the other way (upside down) for solids! a little less lead yeilded hollow points.... we would weigh them after we were done...and sort them by weight! I remember it was effortless, and fun! till...later...G.T. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

07-19-2002, 12:41 PM	#9
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	I've cast many thousands of bullets for both rifle and pistol. My molds include iron/steel and aluminum. (That's "aluminium" for our English-speaking friends.) The makers of my molds include RCBS, Lyman, SAECO, Lee and NEI. My own personal favorites are the aluminum molds by NEI. The spru cutter on the NEI molds are the best I've used while Lyman has, IMO, the poorest. I have a custom-made mold for a 95 grain truncated cone bullet that I use in the .30 Luger. An aluminum mold can be pre-heated by sticking the lower forward end into the molten lead for about 20 seconds. The lead will not stick to the mold block. When casting, I keep a half-round sponge in a shallow pan of water that keeps the sponge damp. I turn the filled mold upside down and press the spru cutter against the damp sponge to cool the cutter and the spru. That gives a cleaner cut without smearing lead on the underside of the cutter. The bullets are then dropped into a shallow pan of cold water. The cold water tempers the bullet surface and makes it harder. I keep a hammer handle available to tap the mold handle bolt that acts as the pivot point for opening and closing the molds. Tapping is necessary to make bullets drop from the mold. NEVER tap or hit the mold blocks! Turn the mold over after cutting the spru and with the cutter to one side, open the blocks and tap the handle bolt until the bullets drop into the water pan. As a matter of safety, keep the damp sponge container and the drop pan of water a safe distance from the molten lead. A single drop of water into the lead will cause an instant "explosion" of molten lead. ALWAYS wear a long sleeve shirt, leather gloves and eye protection when casting. Good ventilation is also a must. Fluxing the molten lead mixture is important. It keeps the lead/tin/antimony properly mixed and also brings impurities to the surface to be skimmed off. While beeswax will work as a flux, it's smokey and gives off a greasy film that will coat nearby things. I prefer "Marvel-flux" that's available from Brownells. There are excellent books and articles available for bullet casting. Lyman's "Cast Bullet Book" is one you'll probably want. Casting is another hobby that can get as complicated as you want to make it.

07-19-2002, 02:08 PM	#11
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	John, the big name in swaged bullets used to be Corbin. I haven't looked into swaged bullets in some time and I don't know if they're still in business or not.

07-19-2002, 09:14 PM	#12
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,485 Thanks: 1,283 Thanked 3,581 Times in 989 Posts	Hi Rick, I think you would be well served by swaging... as I remember, the bullets looked every bit as nice as commercially made bullets, and even though you cut the lead wire off in a bench mounted cutoff tool, they were quite accurate, with very little variance... with the added plus of, no subsequent sizing, lube, or leading.... you just swage, weigh, and load... I believe they will make any die you specify.... let me know what you find out, as I think swaged bullets would cost far less then factory... Of course, you have to write the initial set up off as experimental prototype tooling...or just fun! till...later...G.T.

07-24-2002, 12:13 AM	#13
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,485 Thanks: 1,283 Thanked 3,581 Times in 989 Posts	Hi Rick! Yes, I think getting the correct components might be a problem? Although I think they would offer jackets in other calibers that might suffice... I think the lead bullet swaging they are talking about would probably refer to swaging a cast lead bullet instead of sizing? Not for sure, but it would have its advantages.... let me know as you go, as I have the tug to revisit bullet swaging also....best of luck! till....later....G.T.

07-24-2002, 02:28 AM	#14
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	I got a price list from Corbin several years ago, and even then it cost a small fortune to get set up for swaging in just one caliber. They appear to aimed at the person wanting to produce a large quantity of bullets for retailing, rather than a small amount for personal use. Unless of course, you have several hundred $ laying around not drawing any interest that you want to put to practical use. <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" /> __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

07-24-2002, 12:35 PM	#15
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Rick, Ont thing to keep in mind is the hardness of your bullets. As long as you plan on using jackets, swaging might be OK. Without jackets, swaged bullets tend to be soft. My guess is hardened lead like you can cast bullets with would be too tough to swage. Soft lead bullets (bare) will lead up your gun(s) fast with anything but the lightest loads. __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

07-25-2002, 02:09 PM	#16
The Wizard User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 67 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here is some information regarding the 7,65 mm Parabellum bullet straight from the horse's mouth. I have a drawing from NAMMO (Nordic Ammunition Company) Small Arms Division Product Development Lapua Team detailing the 7,65 mm Parabellum bullet. It give the diameter of the bullett as 7,83 +0.00/-0.02 mm (.3080 +.0000/-.0008 inches). Just thought someone might be interested. __________________ The Wizard Air Dropable AND Ground Recoverable Necat omnes! Deus suos agnoscet. The application of the proper amount of high explosives can solve any problem. War is an act of force and to the application of that force there is no limit! So say the philosophers (Carl von Clausewitz b 1780 d 1831) of war.

07-25-2002, 03:00 PM	#17
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by The Wizard: <strong>Here is some information regarding the 7,65 mm Parabellum bullet straight from the horse's mouth. I have a drawing from NAMMO (Nordic Ammunition Company) Small Arms Division Product Development Lapua Team detailing the 7,65 mm Parabellum bullet. It give the diameter of the bullett as 7,83 +0.00/-0.02 mm (.3080 +.0000/-.0008 inches). Just thought someone might be interested.</strong><hr></blockquote> Perhaps NAMMO is producing bullets for the newer guns in 7.65mm. Both my Browning Hi-Power and my Bennelli B-80 have .308" groove diameters. My original Lugers are in the .310" - .311" range. A box of 93 grain Norma bullets that I bought back in the late 1960's were .309". I routinely swage .312" bullets down to .310" for use in my Lugers. I'm waiting now for a rebarreled "cannon" to arrive from Hugh Clark who installed a new Numrich 6 inch barrel in .30 Luger. The picture he sent shows a REALLY nice-looking setup. (To my eyes, a six inch tube on the Luger is the perfect balance for looks.) I'm pretty sure the new barrel will be bored for .308" bullets but I'll check it just to be certain.

07-25-2002, 04:57 PM	#18
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	I just bought this mold and am anxiously awaiting its arrival. It is a 93 gr HP .311 for the 30 Luger. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" /> __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

07-25-2002, 11:18 PM	#19
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	Hugh, posting something like that hollowpoint mold just isn't very nice! To say I'm envious is putting it mildly! Let us know how it works and how the bullets shoot.... should be interesting. Now, I'm just gonna go to the corner of my den and..... <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />

07-26-2002, 12:05 AM	#20
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Hey Hugh, if those work good, I will buy a 100 bullets from you! Would you size mine .310" please! <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" /> __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."