.30 Bullets

Doubs · 07-27-2002, 04:30 PM

Here's a picture of a few of my cartridges and some of the bullets I use in my .30 Lugers.

From the left: Factory W-W 93 grain FMJ; 95 grain cast bullet of my design from my custom NEI mold; Cast bullet loaded in R-P case; .308" 100 grain Speer "Plinker" loaded in a case made from a GI 5.56mm case; .309" 93 grain Norma FMJ in an R-P case; 90 grain JHP Sierra .312" bullet swaged to .310" in a W-W case; Hornady .308" 86 grain SP bullet and 85 grain Hornady .312" XTP bullet.

Thor · 07-27-2002, 05:34 PM

Doubs, that custom bullet is COOOOOLLLLLL!!! Looks like an anti tank round!!! WOWOWWOWO! I am going to order some custom cast 95 gr RN sized to .310" loaded with a good portion of Unique. I am looking at a bullet in the 18-20 BNH range. LOVE THAT BULLET!!!! How does it function and is it accurate?

Doubs · 07-28-2002, 12:33 AM

Thor, the bullet casts very nicely and is as accurate as I can shoot. (My eyes are a problem now and I'm not nearly so good at grouping as I used to be.) If I were to do it over - and I still may - I'd have the flat part of the nose, or "meplat", of the bullet at least double it's current diameter. I believe it would still function without a hitch and be a better bullet. The current bullet as been perfect as far as function goes... never a jam.

I put some cast bullet rounds through a 6 inch barrel this evening that Hugh changed for me and it was perfect. No jams and it shot great.

Rick, the cases I made out of GI brass weren't difficult but did take some time. I used a tubing cutter to cut the brass to approximate length. Then I formed it in my RCBS full-length resizing die... just a normal die. I trimmed to length. The hard part was reducing the neck thickness. I used a Forrester trimmer with an outside neck turning attachment to reduce neck thickness for the bullet I was using. .011 - .012" for .308" bullets and .008" for .312" bullets. That was before I started swagging the .312" bullets to smaller diameters. I also made lots of .30 Mauser cases that way too. They worked beautifully in both the Luger and C-96.

The 100 grain Speer "Plinkers" are the most difficult to get right because there's no crimping groove (cannelure) and the bullet is held by neck tension alone. The "trick" is to seat the bullet so that the bullet doesn't go too deep into the neck. The final few thousands of an inch of inside neck diameter needs to be smaller than the bullet to keep it from recessing into the case under recoil. Getting the correct bullet seating depth can be tricky but it's essential to not go too deep.

Doubs · 07-28-2002, 12:38 PM

Rick, when I used the .223 brass to make .30 Luger cases, my options were very limited. I could have used .38 Super cases but I didn't have a viable way to reduce the rim diameter which was too large.

Today, if I were to need cases and couldn't buy them, I'd use Starline's 9mm Largo cases which should form beautifully and not require anything other than trimming to the correct length. The thickness of the case walls wouldn't present a problem in the neck area. The Winchester 9x23 case should also work.

Another case that works well is the 9mm Win. Magnum. It's a good choice if you also have a C-96 Broomhandle to load for. I believe Winchester has discontinued 9mm Magnum case production for reloaders but some could possibly be found on e-bay.

It's all academic at the moment because .30 Luger and .30 Mauser brass is readily available but the day may come when it's not and knowing your options would come in handy.

G.T. · 07-28-2002, 01:11 PM

Hi Rick! I don't have a clue to the difficulties that are faced in remanufacturing brass, but I find it very interesting as to the methods that are used to get the desired case dimensions! My question is, why couldn't you set up / fabricate a fixture, using a modified full length sizing die, and a readily available straight flute chucking reamer in a drill press to get the correct wall thickness on the inside of the case mouth? With the correct drill bushing, it would be accurate ot a couple of tenths!! Kinda rube goldburg type of an idea, but I can't see why it wouldn't work! Till...later...G.T. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" /> <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

Doubs · 07-28-2002, 01:50 PM

G.T., if a case is formed with a sizing die, the inside diameter of the neck is correct for loading the bullet. Running a reamer through the inside of the neck to achieve a certain wall thickness would open the neck and allow the bullet to fall through. Years ago, a friend of mine tried it and ruined a lot of cases. Fortunately for him, they were rifle cases that he could buy almost anywhere. Any excess thickness must be removed from the exterior wall.

When a case's neck thickness increases due to repeated firings, an inside reamer works fine on a fired case.

G.T. · 07-28-2002, 04:17 PM

Hi Guys! I knew it sounded to easy! I reaaly find the case prep interesting! I never even considered the neck thickening aspect... also, I failed to notice the vast difference in rim and extractor configuration.....Sure has been an interesting thread .... Thanks guys, for all the info! till...later...G.T. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

Doubs · 07-28-2002, 05:24 PM

Hi Rick,

You were waaaay ahead of me on your case options. A few years back I bought some 9mm Winchester Mag cases to form mostly into .30 Mauser. Then Starline comes out with .30 Mauser and .30 Tokarev cases and the 9mm Mag cases are in storage until the day I may need them again.

I also have some .38 Super cases which I can use in my Chinese Tokarev after switching to the conversion kit and also in an Astra 400. For the Astra, I'm very careful to keep my loads within 9mm Largo/.38 ACP pressures and velocity. The 400 is a beautifully-made pistol but not up to a diet of factory-level .38 Super ammo.

G.T. · 07-28-2002, 05:50 PM

Rick! Send me a private email! till...later...G.T. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

G.T. · 07-28-2002, 07:23 PM

Hi Rick! Same for me!! My address is gctomeks@msn.com Give this a try as I am up and running right now.... till...later...G.T.

Thor · 07-29-2002, 05:53 PM

Ordered 100 .310" sized 95 gr RN hard cast bullets from Liberty shooting supplies. Hope they shoot good. Thor

07-27-2002, 04:30 PM	#1
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	.30 Bullets Here's a picture of a few of my cartridges and some of the bullets I use in my .30 Lugers. From the left: Factory W-W 93 grain FMJ; 95 grain cast bullet of my design from my custom NEI mold; Cast bullet loaded in R-P case; .308" 100 grain Speer "Plinker" loaded in a case made from a GI 5.56mm case; .309" 93 grain Norma FMJ in an R-P case; 90 grain JHP Sierra .312" bullet swaged to .310" in a W-W case; Hornady .308" 86 grain SP bullet and 85 grain Hornady .312" XTP bullet.

07-27-2002, 05:34 PM	#2
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Doubs, that custom bullet is COOOOOLLLLLL!!! Looks like an anti tank round!!! WOWOWWOWO! I am going to order some custom cast 95 gr RN sized to .310" loaded with a good portion of Unique. I am looking at a bullet in the 18-20 BNH range. LOVE THAT BULLET!!!! How does it function and is it accurate? __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

07-29-2002, 05:53 PM	#11
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Ordered 100 .310" sized 95 gr RN hard cast bullets from Liberty shooting supplies. Hope they shoot good. Thor __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

07-28-2002, 12:33 AM	#3
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	Thor, the bullet casts very nicely and is as accurate as I can shoot. (My eyes are a problem now and I'm not nearly so good at grouping as I used to be.) If I were to do it over - and I still may - I'd have the flat part of the nose, or "meplat", of the bullet at least double it's current diameter. I believe it would still function without a hitch and be a better bullet. The current bullet as been perfect as far as function goes... never a jam. I put some cast bullet rounds through a 6 inch barrel this evening that Hugh changed for me and it was perfect. No jams and it shot great. Rick, the cases I made out of GI brass weren't difficult but did take some time. I used a tubing cutter to cut the brass to approximate length. Then I formed it in my RCBS full-length resizing die... just a normal die. I trimmed to length. The hard part was reducing the neck thickness. I used a Forrester trimmer with an outside neck turning attachment to reduce neck thickness for the bullet I was using. .011 - .012" for .308" bullets and .008" for .312" bullets. That was before I started swagging the .312" bullets to smaller diameters. I also made lots of .30 Mauser cases that way too. They worked beautifully in both the Luger and C-96. The 100 grain Speer "Plinkers" are the most difficult to get right because there's no crimping groove (cannelure) and the bullet is held by neck tension alone. The "trick" is to seat the bullet so that the bullet doesn't go too deep into the neck. The final few thousands of an inch of inside neck diameter needs to be smaller than the bullet to keep it from recessing into the case under recoil. Getting the correct bullet seating depth can be tricky but it's essential to not go too deep.

07-28-2002, 12:38 PM	#4
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	Rick, when I used the .223 brass to make .30 Luger cases, my options were very limited. I could have used .38 Super cases but I didn't have a viable way to reduce the rim diameter which was too large. Today, if I were to need cases and couldn't buy them, I'd use Starline's 9mm Largo cases which should form beautifully and not require anything other than trimming to the correct length. The thickness of the case walls wouldn't present a problem in the neck area. The Winchester 9x23 case should also work. Another case that works well is the 9mm Win. Magnum. It's a good choice if you also have a C-96 Broomhandle to load for. I believe Winchester has discontinued 9mm Magnum case production for reloaders but some could possibly be found on e-bay. It's all academic at the moment because .30 Luger and .30 Mauser brass is readily available but the day may come when it's not and knowing your options would come in handy.

07-28-2002, 01:11 PM	#5
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,485 Thanks: 1,283 Thanked 3,581 Times in 989 Posts	Hi Rick! I don't have a clue to the difficulties that are faced in remanufacturing brass, but I find it very interesting as to the methods that are used to get the desired case dimensions! My question is, why couldn't you set up / fabricate a fixture, using a modified full length sizing die, and a readily available straight flute chucking reamer in a drill press to get the correct wall thickness on the inside of the case mouth? With the correct drill bushing, it would be accurate ot a couple of tenths!! Kinda rube goldburg type of an idea, but I can't see why it wouldn't work! Till...later...G.T. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" /> <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

07-28-2002, 01:50 PM	#6
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	G.T., if a case is formed with a sizing die, the inside diameter of the neck is correct for loading the bullet. Running a reamer through the inside of the neck to achieve a certain wall thickness would open the neck and allow the bullet to fall through. Years ago, a friend of mine tried it and ruined a lot of cases. Fortunately for him, they were rifle cases that he could buy almost anywhere. Any excess thickness must be removed from the exterior wall. When a case's neck thickness increases due to repeated firings, an inside reamer works fine on a fired case.

07-28-2002, 04:17 PM	#7
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,485 Thanks: 1,283 Thanked 3,581 Times in 989 Posts	Hi Guys! I knew it sounded to easy! I reaaly find the case prep interesting! I never even considered the neck thickening aspect... also, I failed to notice the vast difference in rim and extractor configuration.....Sure has been an interesting thread .... Thanks guys, for all the info! till...later...G.T. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

07-28-2002, 05:24 PM	#8
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	Hi Rick, You were waaaay ahead of me on your case options. A few years back I bought some 9mm Winchester Mag cases to form mostly into .30 Mauser. Then Starline comes out with .30 Mauser and .30 Tokarev cases and the 9mm Mag cases are in storage until the day I may need them again. I also have some .38 Super cases which I can use in my Chinese Tokarev after switching to the conversion kit and also in an Astra 400. For the Astra, I'm very careful to keep my loads within 9mm Largo/.38 ACP pressures and velocity. The 400 is a beautifully-made pistol but not up to a diet of factory-level .38 Super ammo.

07-28-2002, 05:50 PM	#9
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,485 Thanks: 1,283 Thanked 3,581 Times in 989 Posts	Rick! Send me a private email! till...later...G.T. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

07-28-2002, 07:23 PM	#10
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,485 Thanks: 1,283 Thanked 3,581 Times in 989 Posts	Hi Rick! Same for me!! My address is gctomeks@msn.com Give this a try as I am up and running right now.... till...later...G.T.