Believe It Or Not... Range Report

Doubs · 07-20-2002, 10:37 PM

I have a mismatched Mauser-made Luger that my father and I bought in the 1950's. It didn't work well with the 4 inch barrel it came with so Pop had an eight inch barrel installed. It has never worked reliably so today I attempted to find a combination of parts that would work with the eight inch tube/slide.

I took the eight inch Mauser, an East German rework Mauser (also a mismatch) with four inch barrel and the frame of a post-WW1 DWM that included the side plate. Two new Mec-Gar mags also went along. My loads included 124 grain ball cartridges loaded with 6.0 grains of Unique and 8.0 grains of Blue Dot. OAL of those cartridges was 1.150" as stipulated by the Hornady manual. I also took some old loads of Speer 100 Grain and Hornady 115 grain HP's charged with 8.5 grains of AA #7. The 100 grain HP's were loaded to an OAL of 1.065" while the 115 grain loads were 1.125". I had loaded them for my father in August of 1988.

Not only did every combination of parts that I tried using the eight inch barrel and 124 grain bullets fail to function correctly, but the East German rework with the four inch barrel also jammed using the Unique and Blue Dot loads. It was enough to make a grown man mumble to himself!

Finally, I was out of Unique and Blue Dot loads so I turned to the hollowpoint loads. A magazine of five rounds of 115 grain HP's in the East German rework and the first four fed beautifully. It jammed on the final round but looks promising. Then I loaded seven rounds of the 100 grain HP's and the darned pistol gobbled them up as though they were candy! Fourteen year-old loads and they worked the Luger like a champ!

I know that seven rounds don't make a reliable gun but it's a beginning and for a gun that isn't supposed to feed HP's, this one seems to like them. I'll load more later and report again when I test them.

Roadkill · 07-20-2002, 10:55 PM

Try some 115 & 124s with the shorter case lengths.

RK

kidvett · 07-21-2002, 08:05 AM

Well, I dont know what those German gunsmiths were doing but they were going it right...Every rebarelled LUGER I've heard of had major reliability problems....

kidvett [img]smile.gif[/img]

Dwight Gruber · 07-21-2002, 12:43 PM

Kidvette, I have a 5" rebarrel by Tom Heller which functions reliably every shot.

--Dwight

Doubs · 07-21-2002, 01:15 PM

[quote]Originally posted by kidvett:
<strong>Well, I dont know what those German gunsmiths were doing but they were going it right...Every rebarelled LUGER I've heard of had major reliability problems.... kidvett [img]smile.gif[/img] </strong><hr></blockquote>

That is probably more true of the 9mm's than of the .30's as all rebarreled .30's I've had have been as reliable as could be. It may also explain why the East Germans left the rear part of the chamber in those 9mm barrels that they relined.

I'm going to take RK's advice and seat the FMJ bullets deeper for a shorter COAL and see how they do in my E. German rework. However, if the pistol is reliable with JHP's I'll likely just stick with them. I also plan to work up a load with a cast bullet. It's my shooter Luger and I want to get as reliable a load worked up for it as possible.

The one I want to get working is the 8 inch barrel. It's extremely accurate and not being able to get a reliable combination is frustrating. If it didn't have sentimental value, I'd either sell it or part it out but that's not an option. I guess I'll just keep it and shoot something else.

max2cam · 07-21-2002, 06:49 PM

I've got a mis-matched 1938 S/42 DDR VOPO(?) rework with a new Crown "N" barrel on it. Bore is MINT.

With the "2/1001" marked (matching) mag it functions 100 percent with South African PMP ammo (115 gr. FMJ) with rare jams using Russian 124 gr. steel cased ammo.

With the $16 unmarked SARCO repro mag it functions 100 percent with the steel-cased Russian ammo, with a rare jam using the PMP.

Using Winchester 115 gr. FMP ammo neither mag functions realiably at all --- 3-4 rounds then a jam every time.

Go figure.....

Roadkill · 07-21-2002, 08:14 PM

Doubs, me offering suggestions ref guns to you is like Clinton offering condolences to Chondra Levy's parents, but I mean well. I have a 1918 Erfurt that was so screwed up I had offers from several forum members to give me another one if I'd get rid of it just so I'd leave everyone alone. If you pulled the trigger with a round in the chamber it would shoot. That was it. If I were to start again with one, the first thing I would do is put a round in it,no magazine, and shoot it. If it ejected and the toggle locked back down then that part at least works. If not then the inside rails need polishing, round is too weak, mainspring too stiff, or all of the above. Once that part would work, I'd take two new magazines with five dummy rounds the same size as the one that shoots & ejects. Hand cycle the action fast, pulling the toggle all the way back. Keep trying magazines until one works. If none will, then start all over with another size round that will feed. It took me weeks, I also used a diamond rubbing compound to polish everything and replaced the mainspring. Works great now.

RK

Doubs · 07-21-2002, 09:34 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Roadkill:
<strong>Doubs, me offering suggestions ref guns to you is like Clinton offering condolences to Chondra Levy's parents, but I mean well. I have a 1918 Erfurt that was so screwed up I had offers from several forum members to give me another one if I'd get rid of it just so I'd leave everyone alone. <Snip> It took me weeks, I also used a diamond rubbing compound to polish everything and replaced the mainspring. Works great now.
RK</strong><hr></blockquote>

RK, good advice is good advice. Everyone knows something that's worth listening to and if it helps, I'll certainly use it.

Your 1918 Erfurt sounds interesting and may have been the reason for the screams of frustration I heard coming from the NorthWest a while back. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I believe I have found the problem with the eight inch barrel Luger. No details just yet because I want to test my theory. Give me a couple of weeks and I'll report back.... hopefully with a report of success!

Lonnie Zimmerman · 07-21-2002, 10:29 PM

I have posted this before, but I will post it again. I shoot nothing but Win JHP in all my Lugers with an oal lenght of 1.150, and have Zero jams. I also use this in my P.38"s with NO jams. I do use Magazines with new Wolff spri
ngs.
Lonnie

Lonnie Zimmerman · 07-21-2002, 11:04 PM

In addition to what I mentioned earlier, I shot with Dwight Gruber, and he shot over 100 rounds with his Lugers using Win 115 Gr FMJ and my handloads and I don"t believe he had 1 misfunction. He probably could help you on this thread.
Lonnie

Dwight Gruber · 07-21-2002, 11:45 PM

Um, hi, Dwight here...I shoot an S/42, a 1917 Artillery, and a 5" Tom Heller rebarrel rgularly, I have shot my byf41 and 1917 Navy once, I shoot a Radom on occasion. I'm not scientific abut the whole thing, I just buy the cheap, bulk-pack 115-grain FMJ from Wal-Mart and pump it through these guns 200-300 rounds at a session with no malfunctions (I shoot CCI Blazer occasionally, also no malfunctions). I'm not sure I really have anything particularly wise or enlightening to say on the subject.

I will note, however, that I went through several extended range sessions exploring all my magazine/pistol combinations, and as a result have retired all my original Luger magazines (except for my fxo) from active shooting. I experienced misfeeding problems with most of the original combinations, and now shoot with modern aftermarket magazines exclusively save for the fxo.

--Dwight

Thor · 07-22-2002, 10:22 AM

I polish most of the ramps of reworked shooter Lugers. It is also important to have a strong magazine spring. That round doesnt have much time to get into alignment. The majority of feed related jams are due to weak mag springs. Polishing the feed ramp can help feeding AND a more reliable closing because less energy is required to drag the bullet across the ramp. It should not be done by those not familiar with the process as angle changes can result.

07-20-2002, 10:37 PM	#1
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	Believe It Or Not... Range Report I have a mismatched Mauser-made Luger that my father and I bought in the 1950's. It didn't work well with the 4 inch barrel it came with so Pop had an eight inch barrel installed. It has never worked reliably so today I attempted to find a combination of parts that would work with the eight inch tube/slide. I took the eight inch Mauser, an East German rework Mauser (also a mismatch) with four inch barrel and the frame of a post-WW1 DWM that included the side plate. Two new Mec-Gar mags also went along. My loads included 124 grain ball cartridges loaded with 6.0 grains of Unique and 8.0 grains of Blue Dot. OAL of those cartridges was 1.150" as stipulated by the Hornady manual. I also took some old loads of Speer 100 Grain and Hornady 115 grain HP's charged with 8.5 grains of AA #7. The 100 grain HP's were loaded to an OAL of 1.065" while the 115 grain loads were 1.125". I had loaded them for my father in August of 1988. Not only did every combination of parts that I tried using the eight inch barrel and 124 grain bullets fail to function correctly, but the East German rework with the four inch barrel also jammed using the Unique and Blue Dot loads. It was enough to make a grown man mumble to himself! Finally, I was out of Unique and Blue Dot loads so I turned to the hollowpoint loads. A magazine of five rounds of 115 grain HP's in the East German rework and the first four fed beautifully. It jammed on the final round but looks promising. Then I loaded seven rounds of the 100 grain HP's and the darned pistol gobbled them up as though they were candy! Fourteen year-old loads and they worked the Luger like a champ! I know that seven rounds don't make a reliable gun but it's a beginning and for a gun that isn't supposed to feed HP's, this one seems to like them. I'll load more later and report again when I test them.

07-21-2002, 10:29 PM	#9
Lonnie Zimmerman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 523 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I have posted this before, but I will post it again. I shoot nothing but Win JHP in all my Lugers with an oal lenght of 1.150, and have Zero jams. I also use this in my P.38"s with NO jams. I do use Magazines with new Wolff spri ngs. Lonnie __________________ Lonnie Zimmerman

07-21-2002, 11:04 PM	#10
Lonnie Zimmerman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 523 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	In addition to what I mentioned earlier, I shot with Dwight Gruber, and he shot over 100 rounds with his Lugers using Win 115 Gr FMJ and my handloads and I don"t believe he had 1 misfunction. He probably could help you on this thread. Lonnie __________________ Lonnie Zimmerman

07-22-2002, 10:22 AM	#12
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	I polish most of the ramps of reworked shooter Lugers. It is also important to have a strong magazine spring. That round doesnt have much time to get into alignment. The majority of feed related jams are due to weak mag springs. Polishing the feed ramp can help feeding AND a more reliable closing because less energy is required to drag the bullet across the ramp. It should not be done by those not familiar with the process as angle changes can result. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

07-20-2002, 10:55 PM	#2
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Try some 115 & 124s with the shorter case lengths. RK

07-21-2002, 08:05 AM	#3
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Well, I dont know what those German gunsmiths were doing but they were going it right...Every rebarelled LUGER I've heard of had major reliability problems.... kidvett [img]smile.gif[/img]

07-21-2002, 12:43 PM	#4
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	Kidvette, I have a 5" rebarrel by Tom Heller which functions reliably every shot. --Dwight

07-21-2002, 01:15 PM	#5
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by kidvett: <strong>Well, I dont know what those German gunsmiths were doing but they were going it right...Every rebarelled LUGER I've heard of had major reliability problems.... kidvett [img]smile.gif[/img] </strong><hr></blockquote> That is probably more true of the 9mm's than of the .30's as all rebarreled .30's I've had have been as reliable as could be. It may also explain why the East Germans left the rear part of the chamber in those 9mm barrels that they relined. I'm going to take RK's advice and seat the FMJ bullets deeper for a shorter COAL and see how they do in my E. German rework. However, if the pistol is reliable with JHP's I'll likely just stick with them. I also plan to work up a load with a cast bullet. It's my shooter Luger and I want to get as reliable a load worked up for it as possible. The one I want to get working is the 8 inch barrel. It's extremely accurate and not being able to get a reliable combination is frustrating. If it didn't have sentimental value, I'd either sell it or part it out but that's not an option. I guess I'll just keep it and shoot something else.

07-21-2002, 06:49 PM	#6
max2cam User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: USA Posts: 97 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I've got a mis-matched 1938 S/42 DDR VOPO(?) rework with a new Crown "N" barrel on it. Bore is MINT. With the "2/1001" marked (matching) mag it functions 100 percent with South African PMP ammo (115 gr. FMJ) with rare jams using Russian 124 gr. steel cased ammo. With the $16 unmarked SARCO repro mag it functions 100 percent with the steel-cased Russian ammo, with a rare jam using the PMP. Using Winchester 115 gr. FMP ammo neither mag functions realiably at all --- 3-4 rounds then a jam every time. Go figure.....

07-21-2002, 08:14 PM	#7
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Doubs, me offering suggestions ref guns to you is like Clinton offering condolences to Chondra Levy's parents, but I mean well. I have a 1918 Erfurt that was so screwed up I had offers from several forum members to give me another one if I'd get rid of it just so I'd leave everyone alone. If you pulled the trigger with a round in the chamber it would shoot. That was it. If I were to start again with one, the first thing I would do is put a round in it,no magazine, and shoot it. If it ejected and the toggle locked back down then that part at least works. If not then the inside rails need polishing, round is too weak, mainspring too stiff, or all of the above. Once that part would work, I'd take two new magazines with five dummy rounds the same size as the one that shoots & ejects. Hand cycle the action fast, pulling the toggle all the way back. Keep trying magazines until one works. If none will, then start all over with another size round that will feed. It took me weeks, I also used a diamond rubbing compound to polish everything and replaced the mainspring. Works great now. RK

07-21-2002, 09:34 PM	#8
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by Roadkill: <strong>Doubs, me offering suggestions ref guns to you is like Clinton offering condolences to Chondra Levy's parents, but I mean well. I have a 1918 Erfurt that was so screwed up I had offers from several forum members to give me another one if I'd get rid of it just so I'd leave everyone alone. <Snip> It took me weeks, I also used a diamond rubbing compound to polish everything and replaced the mainspring. Works great now. RK</strong><hr></blockquote> RK, good advice is good advice. Everyone knows something that's worth listening to and if it helps, I'll certainly use it. Your 1918 Erfurt sounds interesting and may have been the reason for the screams of frustration I heard coming from the NorthWest a while back. [img]smile.gif[/img] I believe I have found the problem with the eight inch barrel Luger. No details just yet because I want to test my theory. Give me a couple of weeks and I'll report back.... hopefully with a report of success!

07-21-2002, 11:45 PM	#11
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	Um, hi, Dwight here...I shoot an S/42, a 1917 Artillery, and a 5" Tom Heller rebarrel rgularly, I have shot my byf41 and 1917 Navy once, I shoot a Radom on occasion. I'm not scientific abut the whole thing, I just buy the cheap, bulk-pack 115-grain FMJ from Wal-Mart and pump it through these guns 200-300 rounds at a session with no malfunctions (I shoot CCI Blazer occasionally, also no malfunctions). I'm not sure I really have anything particularly wise or enlightening to say on the subject. I will note, however, that I went through several extended range sessions exploring all my magazine/pistol combinations, and as a result have retired all my original Luger magazines (except for my fxo) from active shooting. I experienced misfeeding problems with most of the original combinations, and now shoot with modern aftermarket magazines exclusively save for the fxo. --Dwight