Corrosives cleaning?

Dwight Gruber · 06-08-2002, 08:13 PM

Had a conversation in a gun shop this afternoon about cleaning a barrel after using ammunition with corrosive primers (finally found some--very old--9mm Largo rounds, now I can shoot my Astra 400, oboy). The proprietor is an old black powder head, and advised me that the best thing to clean with after using corrosives or black powder is "409"--you know, the household cleaner--full strength, run patches of it through the barrel until they come out clean. He related using the soap-and-water method, and then swabbing with 409 and discovering how much residue was still in the barrel.

Anybody else know about this, have any opinions about it?

--Dwight

Doug G. · 06-08-2002, 10:35 PM

Dwight, having shot black powder guns for many years I have heard thousands of cleaning methods. I still use dishwater soap mildly warm on a swab, then go to a brush. I run patches through the bore until dry. The ammonia in the 409 is ok in that it is diluted, but what he is probably seeing is lead residue that the ammonia is dissolving. I think that if ammonia is left on too long it can ruin blue and possibly etch metal. I sometimes follow up with good old Hoppes No.9 after.

Johnny Peppers · 06-08-2002, 11:04 PM

Dwight,
Doug is right on about the ammonia. Ammonia makes an excellent copper remover, but it is also corrosive. All the ammonia based copper cleaners warn about leaving it in the bore too long. Just plain water with a mild detergent as a wetting agent makes an excellent initial bore cleaner after firing corrosive ammunition. Some use Windex window cleaner as it has all the properties you are looking for.
As a precaution, whatever you use, check the bore for a couple of days after cleaning just to be sure.

Jack Owens · 06-11-2002, 02:54 PM

Dear Friends,

Regarding the danger of ammonia in bore-cleaners, I put a couple of steel welding rods of .0625" diameter in a bottle of Hoppe's Bench Rest Copper Solvent and in a bottle of Sweet's 7.62 Solvent (5% ammonia) on 8/2/01. Etching was soon visible on the Hoppe's rod and as of this date the rod has lost about .0003" of diameter. The Sweet's rod shows absolutely no etching or loss of diameter.

Has anyone else made any actual tests?

Regards,

Jack Owens

John Sabato · 06-11-2002, 03:07 PM

Glad you can finally post Jack... Been watching to see if you finally could login.

[img]smile.gif[/img]

Edward Tinker · 06-11-2002, 04:40 PM

I have always used the soapy water and then followed it up with Hoppes or CLP.

(Hoppes reminds me of those Thanksgiving morning when after we'd gone duck hunting with my uncle, Dad and Grandfather) [img]smile.gif[/img]

I think the cleaner works fast, I would be hesitant to leave it on and there always seems to be something that gets left over. Probably could argue about soapy water seeping down into the inside metals too....

Dennis · 06-15-2002, 12:29 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Dwight Gruber:
<strong>Had a conversation in a gun shop this afternoon about cleaning a barrel after using ammunition with corrosive primers (finally found some--very old--9mm Largo rounds, now I can shoot my Astra 400, oboy). The proprietor is an old black powder head, and advised me that the best thing to clean with after using corrosives or black powder is "409"--you know, the household cleaner--full strength, run patches of it through the barrel until they come out clean. He related using the soap-and-water method, and then swabbing with 409 and discovering how much residue was still in the barrel.

Anybody else know about this, have any opinions about it?

--Dwight</strong><hr></blockquote>

The best method of dealing with corrosive ammo is Simple Green and hot, HOT water!!! The water must be hot enough to evaporate quickly!!! Follow with a good CLP gun oil or Hoppie's #9 followed with a good gun oil!!!

Marvin · 06-15-2002, 06:49 PM

Dwight,

Take a look at the "General Information" section of the Forum. There is a little articel I did on cleaning after firing corrosive ammo. I have used this method for 35 years and no problems with any rust yet.

Marvin

Jack Owens · 06-16-2002, 05:01 AM

Dear Friends,

Quite a few years ago I had a 1917 American Enfield rebarreled by Douglas and shot corrosive ammunition in it with the belief that if I cleaned it thoroughly with soap and boiling water for two or three days afterward I would avoid any damage to the bore.

After several uses and cleanings I noticed what seemed to be stains at the muzzle-end of the rifle (where I could get a good right-angle look at the bore). I have a microscope and with some fancy maneuvering I was able to get the muzzle end of the rifle in a position where I could get a view of the stains and found that they were microscopic pits that had started to form.

Since then I've sworn off using any corrosive ammunition in a firearm if I can possibly get non-corrosive ammunition for it. In other words, I doubt that it is possible to avoid the erosive effects of such ammunition completely. You may not see any rust, but I believe you'll get gradual pitting/erosion.

Regards,
Jack

06-08-2002, 08:13 PM	#1
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	Corrosives cleaning? Had a conversation in a gun shop this afternoon about cleaning a barrel after using ammunition with corrosive primers (finally found some--very old--9mm Largo rounds, now I can shoot my Astra 400, oboy). The proprietor is an old black powder head, and advised me that the best thing to clean with after using corrosives or black powder is "409"--you know, the household cleaner--full strength, run patches of it through the barrel until they come out clean. He related using the soap-and-water method, and then swabbing with 409 and discovering how much residue was still in the barrel. Anybody else know about this, have any opinions about it? --Dwight

06-08-2002, 10:35 PM	#2
Doug G. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 713 Thanks: 1 Thanked 53 Times in 17 Posts	Dwight, having shot black powder guns for many years I have heard thousands of cleaning methods. I still use dishwater soap mildly warm on a swab, then go to a brush. I run patches through the bore until dry. The ammonia in the 409 is ok in that it is diluted, but what he is probably seeing is lead residue that the ammonia is dissolving. I think that if ammonia is left on too long it can ruin blue and possibly etch metal. I sometimes follow up with good old Hoppes No.9 after. __________________ Suppose you were an idiot.....and suppose you were a member of Congress.....But I repeat myself" ~~ Mark Twain

06-11-2002, 03:07 PM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Glad you can finally post Jack... Been watching to see if you finally could login. [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-11-2002, 04:40 PM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	I have always used the soapy water and then followed it up with Hoppes or CLP. (Hoppes reminds me of those Thanksgiving morning when after we'd gone duck hunting with my uncle, Dad and Grandfather) [img]smile.gif[/img] I think the cleaner works fast, I would be hesitant to leave it on and there always seems to be something that gets left over. Probably could argue about soapy water seeping down into the inside metals too.... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

06-08-2002, 11:04 PM	#3
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Dwight, Doug is right on about the ammonia. Ammonia makes an excellent copper remover, but it is also corrosive. All the ammonia based copper cleaners warn about leaving it in the bore too long. Just plain water with a mild detergent as a wetting agent makes an excellent initial bore cleaner after firing corrosive ammunition. Some use Windex window cleaner as it has all the properties you are looking for. As a precaution, whatever you use, check the bore for a couple of days after cleaning just to be sure.

06-11-2002, 02:54 PM	#4
Jack Owens User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Porterville, California Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Dear Friends, Regarding the danger of ammonia in bore-cleaners, I put a couple of steel welding rods of .0625" diameter in a bottle of Hoppe's Bench Rest Copper Solvent and in a bottle of Sweet's 7.62 Solvent (5% ammonia) on 8/2/01. Etching was soon visible on the Hoppe's rod and as of this date the rod has lost about .0003" of diameter. The Sweet's rod shows absolutely no etching or loss of diameter. Has anyone else made any actual tests? Regards, Jack Owens

06-15-2002, 12:29 AM	#7
Dennis User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Buckeye, AZ, USA Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by Dwight Gruber: <strong>Had a conversation in a gun shop this afternoon about cleaning a barrel after using ammunition with corrosive primers (finally found some--very old--9mm Largo rounds, now I can shoot my Astra 400, oboy). The proprietor is an old black powder head, and advised me that the best thing to clean with after using corrosives or black powder is "409"--you know, the household cleaner--full strength, run patches of it through the barrel until they come out clean. He related using the soap-and-water method, and then swabbing with 409 and discovering how much residue was still in the barrel. Anybody else know about this, have any opinions about it? --Dwight</strong><hr></blockquote> The best method of dealing with corrosive ammo is Simple Green and hot, HOT water!!! The water must be hot enough to evaporate quickly!!! Follow with a good CLP gun oil or Hoppie's #9 followed with a good gun oil!!!

06-15-2002, 06:49 PM	#8
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Dwight, Take a look at the "General Information" section of the Forum. There is a little articel I did on cleaning after firing corrosive ammo. I have used this method for 35 years and no problems with any rust yet. Marvin

06-16-2002, 05:01 AM	#9
Jack Owens User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Porterville, California Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Dear Friends, Quite a few years ago I had a 1917 American Enfield rebarreled by Douglas and shot corrosive ammunition in it with the belief that if I cleaned it thoroughly with soap and boiling water for two or three days afterward I would avoid any damage to the bore. After several uses and cleanings I noticed what seemed to be stains at the muzzle-end of the rifle (where I could get a good right-angle look at the bore). I have a microscope and with some fancy maneuvering I was able to get the muzzle end of the rifle in a position where I could get a view of the stains and found that they were microscopic pits that had started to form. Since then I've sworn off using any corrosive ammunition in a firearm if I can possibly get non-corrosive ammunition for it. In other words, I doubt that it is possible to avoid the erosive effects of such ammunition completely. You may not see any rust, but I believe you'll get gradual pitting/erosion. Regards, Jack