Which Sub-Machinegun is this?

John Sabato · 08-30-2013, 08:11 AM

This photo was used by foxnews.com today related to the capture of a drug cartel leader. I am ususally pretty knowledgeable about small arms, but I do not recognise this gun... can anyone else identify it?

Thanks, -John S.

Ron Smith · 08-30-2013, 08:47 AM

I believe it's a variation of the UZI.

sheepherder · 08-30-2013, 09:54 AM

My WAG is a Mendoza HM-3...

Seems to be several variations...

alanint · 08-30-2013, 10:22 AM

It IS a Mendoza and they are supplied in various configurations. Mall cops have semi auto only versions in Mexico.

It is a much closer copy of the Czech VZ 25 than it is of the UZI;

http://world.guns.ru/smg/chex/sa-23-e.html

sheepherder · 08-30-2013, 10:51 AM

Here is the story -

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/08...est=latestnews

Amusing note at end of story -

"Nunez is wanted in the U.S. on drug-trafficking charges in a federal court in Texas. The Mexican government said he could face up to 40 years in prison in Mexico, and it was not immediately clear whether there was a U.S. extradition request for him."

Extradite him???

Let him enjoy the 40 years in a Mexican jail, says I...

On the Mendoza...It has a lot of similarities to the UZI and VZ...Bolt telescopes over the barrel, fires from open bolt [auto version], magazine in grip, 9mm, sheet metal/tubing construction, collapsible buttstock...the stock in the Foxnews pic is interesting as it folds over the receiver instead of the usual under-folding wire stock...

BTW, that short stocky dude scares the crap out of me...

John Sabato · 08-30-2013, 12:09 PM

thanks for all the replies... based on what I see in the photos... this gives real meaning to the term "open bolt"

John Sabato · 08-30-2013, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

Extradite him???

Let him enjoy the 40 years in a Mexican jail, says I...

The problem is, with all the corruption down there, would he even STAY in prison? If we can get him to Texas, and charge him with murder(s), they can put him in the ground a lot sooner than 40 years.

alanint · 08-30-2013, 12:29 PM

In México, he will be able to live in relative luxury, a la Al capone, including the best food, women and all the comforts of home by bribing prison officials.

Bringing him here would be a much more grueling ordeal for him.

lugerholsterrepair · 08-30-2013, 12:37 PM

John..gives real meaning to the term "open bolt" The bolt is NOT open in this photo. A little difficult to tell but if it were the mag and cartridge would be seen so it looks closed to me.

John Sabato · 08-30-2013, 01:42 PM

Jerry I was talking about the open bolt operation of the sub gun... it appears that when "open" you could easily get a lot of things caught in the open action...

not to mention the bolt handle moving so violently in your line of sight!

and not that these guns had their bolts open... sorry if I confused you...

lugerholsterrepair · 08-30-2013, 02:20 PM

John, Having shot many thousands of rounds in open bolt sub guns, The bolt handle is of no concern!
I am easily confused..not your fault!

An open bolt does have the possibility of pollution no doubt but many sub guns have a cover for that reason.
One reason for open bolts is cooling. On fast firing subs heat can cause cookoff's so the open bolt helps to prevent them.

DavidJayUden · 08-30-2013, 02:34 PM

Is it possible that these are open bolt guns, but are carried with the bolt closed when action is not immediate? Like when they are posing for photos...
dju

lugerholsterrepair · 08-30-2013, 02:51 PM

The Mendoza HM-3 submachine gun was designed by Hector Mendoza, son of the famous Mexican small arms designer Rafael Mendoza. This compact and modern weapon was subsequently adopted by Mexican military. Because of strict Mexican laws, it was never officially exported outside the country. In late 1990s Mendoza company began manufacture of an improved weapon, with modern polimer furniture and different cocking arrangements. This weapon still is known as HM-3 and is available in two basic versions - selective fire HM-3 for military use and semi-automatic only HM-3S for police and security use.
Mendoza HM-3 submachine gun operates on simple blowback principle, from open bolt. It can shoot semi-automatic or in bursts, with combined safety / fire selector switch being located on the right side of the gun, above the trigger. Mendoza HM-3 submachine gun features "wrap-around" bolt which is exposed for the most part of its length, with cocking serrations machined on either side of the bolt in front of ejection port. Feed is from detachable box magazines, which are inserted into the pistol grip. Buttstock folds horizontally to the left side of the gun, and forms a forward grip when folded.
The Mendoza HM-3S semiautomatic carbine is different that it fires from closed bolt, has a polymer furniture and an U-shaped cocking handle (instead of the serrations) above the still exposed bolt.

rhuff · 08-30-2013, 04:06 PM

That is definitely a compact, efficient appearing subgun. I have had an interest in subguns for a long time now. This weapon would sure look nice in my safe......legal of course!! Thanks John for the photos.

08-30-2013, 08:11 AM	#1
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Which Sub-Machinegun is this? This photo was used by foxnews.com today related to the capture of a drug cartel leader. I am ususally pretty knowledgeable about small arms, but I do not recognise this gun... can anyone else identify it? Thanks, -John S. Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

08-30-2013, 08:47 AM	#2
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	I believe it's a variation of the UZI. __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

08-30-2013, 09:54 AM	#3
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	My WAG is a Mendoza HM-3... Seems to be several variations... Attached Images __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

08-30-2013, 10:51 AM	#5
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	Here is the story - http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/08...est=latestnews Amusing note at end of story - "Nunez is wanted in the U.S. on drug-trafficking charges in a federal court in Texas. The Mexican government said he could face up to 40 years in prison in Mexico, and it was not immediately clear whether there was a U.S. extradition request for him." Extradite him??? Let him enjoy the 40 years in a Mexican jail, says I... On the Mendoza...It has a lot of similarities to the UZI and VZ...Bolt telescopes over the barrel, fires from open bolt [auto version], magazine in grip, 9mm, sheet metal/tubing construction, collapsible buttstock...the stock in the Foxnews pic is interesting as it folds *over* the receiver instead of the usual under-folding wire stock... BTW, that short stocky dude scares the crap out of me... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

08-30-2013, 12:09 PM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	thanks for all the replies... based on what I see in the photos... this gives real meaning to the term "open bolt" __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-30-2013, 10:22 AM	#4
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	It IS a Mendoza and they are supplied in various configurations. Mall cops have semi auto only versions in Mexico. It is a much closer copy of the Czech VZ 25 than it is of the UZI; http://world.guns.ru/smg/chex/sa-23-e.html

08-30-2013, 12:29 PM	#8
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	In México, he will be able to live in relative luxury, a la Al capone, including the best food, women and all the comforts of home by bribing prison officials. Bringing him here would be a much more grueling ordeal for him.

08-30-2013, 12:37 PM	#9
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,850 Thanked 3,100 Times in 1,426 Posts	John..gives real meaning to the term "open bolt" The bolt is NOT open in this photo. A little difficult to tell but if it were the mag and cartridge would be seen so it looks closed to me. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-30-2013, 01:42 PM	#10
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Jerry I was talking about the open bolt operation of the sub gun... it appears that when "open" you could easily get a lot of things caught in the open action... not to mention the bolt handle moving so violently in your line of sight! and not that these guns had their bolts open... sorry if I confused you... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-30-2013, 02:20 PM	#11
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,850 Thanked 3,100 Times in 1,426 Posts	John, Having shot many thousands of rounds in open bolt sub guns, The bolt handle is of no concern! I am easily confused..not your fault! An open bolt does have the possibility of pollution no doubt but many sub guns have a cover for that reason. One reason for open bolts is cooling. On fast firing subs heat can cause cookoff's so the open bolt helps to prevent them. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-30-2013, 02:34 PM	#12
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Is it possible that these are open bolt guns, but are carried with the bolt closed when action is not immediate? Like when they are posing for photos... dju

08-30-2013, 02:51 PM	#13
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,850 Thanked 3,100 Times in 1,426 Posts	The Mendoza HM-3 submachine gun was designed by Hector Mendoza, son of the famous Mexican small arms designer Rafael Mendoza. This compact and modern weapon was subsequently adopted by Mexican military. Because of strict Mexican laws, it was never officially exported outside the country. In late 1990s Mendoza company began manufacture of an improved weapon, with modern polimer furniture and different cocking arrangements. This weapon still is known as HM-3 and is available in two basic versions - selective fire HM-3 for military use and semi-automatic only HM-3S for police and security use. Mendoza HM-3 submachine gun operates on simple blowback principle, from open bolt. It can shoot semi-automatic or in bursts, with combined safety / fire selector switch being located on the right side of the gun, above the trigger. Mendoza HM-3 submachine gun features "wrap-around" bolt which is exposed for the most part of its length, with cocking serrations machined on either side of the bolt in front of ejection port. Feed is from detachable box magazines, which are inserted into the pistol grip. Buttstock folds horizontally to the left side of the gun, and forms a forward grip when folded. The Mendoza HM-3S semiautomatic carbine is different that it fires from closed bolt, has a polymer furniture and an U-shaped cocking handle (instead of the serrations) above the still exposed bolt. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-30-2013, 04:06 PM	#14
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,270 Thanks: 2,686 Thanked 958 Times in 704 Posts	That is definitely a compact, efficient appearing subgun. I have had an interest in subguns for a long time now. This weapon would sure look nice in my safe......legal of course!! Thanks John for the photos.