Buy & sell w/ C&R

hayhugh · 05-13-2017, 01:49 AM

Just received a form for renewal of my C&R license. It now has a section wanting to know how many guns I purchased in the last 3 years using my C&R license. It also wants to know how many gun I sold in the last 3 years using my C&R license. Don't remember that being there before....

I know that Curios and Relics license holders may NOT engage in the business of buying and selling curios and relics.

alvin · 05-13-2017, 06:09 AM

It's there. Not new.

The transaction volume of C&R holders cannot compare with dealers. Dealers living on gun transactions, and living on gun transactions must not be easy... for example, earning $500 out of a $1500 item sounds like attractive but it is not an easy task. If a dealer sells $1500 every day, he/she could earn about $100K per year pretax ($500 x 200 working days)... as we can see, very few C&R holders could sell $1500 every day for months, let alone for years. For many listed items, regardless being good or bad, the items just listed there for weeks, for months. Even selling a few were not easy, let alone selling a few hundred.. so, how many C&R holders could live on gun transactions? probably none. To live on gun transactions, dealer needs to sell at least a few hundred guns per year,,, and his/her career as a dealer was not a one-year task... he/she needs to repeat that every year... the goal, the mission and the volume is totally different comparing with C&R holder.

The only way that C&R holder could make a few dollars out of C&R being "steal buy". You found items way lower than market. That happens but the volume is tiny. Simply not many items are sold very low. C&R holders cannot live on those either. Lack of volume decided the fate.

Bill_in_VA · 05-13-2017, 06:29 AM

It's no big deal. Your A&D book has the numbers of acquisitions/purchases and dispositions/sales.

It's perfectly legal for a C&R licensee to buy and and seLl; the sticking point is whether you do it as an occasional thing to enhance your personal collection, or if you do it with the principle "intention of livelihood and profit." If the later, then you're "in the business" according to 18USC 921(a)(21) and (22) and thus need a Type 01 (dealer) FFL.

05-13-2017, 01:49 AM	#1
hayhugh User Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Florida/Penna Posts: 885 Thanks: 851 Thanked 508 Times in 271 Posts	Buy & sell w/ C&R Just received a form for renewal of my C&R license. It now has a section wanting to know how many guns I purchased in the last 3 years using my C&R license. It also wants to know how many gun I sold in the last 3 years using my C&R license. Don't remember that being there before.... I know that Curios and Relics license holders may NOT engage in the business of buying and selling curios and relics. Last edited by hayhugh; 05-13-2017 at 01:56 AM. Reason: more info

05-13-2017, 06:29 AM	#3
Bill_in_VA User Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Southwest Virginia Posts: 349 Thanks: 735 Thanked 473 Times in 180 Posts	It's no big deal. Your A&D book has the numbers of acquisitions/purchases and dispositions/sales. It's perfectly legal for a C&R licensee to buy and and seLl; the sticking point is whether you do it as an occasional thing to enhance your personal collection, or if you do it with the principle "intention of livelihood and profit." If the later, then you're "in the business" according to 18USC 921(a)(21) and (22) and thus need a Type 01 (dealer) FFL. __________________ John 8:32 reive (riːv) vb (Military) (intr) dialect Scot and Northern English to go on a plundering raid [variant of reave] ˈreiver n e.g., " Some view the Border Reivers as loveable rogues."

05-13-2017, 06:09 AM	#2
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	It's there. Not new. The transaction volume of C&R holders cannot compare with dealers. Dealers living on gun transactions, and living on gun transactions must not be easy... for example, earning $500 out of a $1500 item sounds like attractive but it is not an easy task. If a dealer sells $1500 every day, he/she could earn about $100K per year pretax ($500 x 200 working days)... as we can see, very few C&R holders could sell $1500 every day for months, let alone for years. For many listed items, regardless being good or bad, the items just listed there for weeks, for months. Even selling a few were not easy, let alone selling a few hundred.. so, how many C&R holders could live on gun transactions? probably none. To live on gun transactions, dealer needs to sell at least a few hundred guns per year,,, and his/her career as a dealer was not a one-year task... he/she needs to repeat that every year... the goal, the mission and the volume is totally different comparing with C&R holder. The only way that C&R holder could make a few dollars out of C&R being "steal buy". You found items way lower than market. That happens but the volume is tiny. Simply not many items are sold very low. C&R holders cannot live on those either. Lack of volume decided the fate.