Luger Investment Questions

cirelaw · 07-15-2010, 02:50 PM

Can anyone answer these questions? First are Lugers still a sound investment? What class or type has done better than others. Is it better to invest in one type or class or spead out your inventory. Finally what Luger is it that You own You would never part with? How many lugers do You think the average collector owns? I'll post my choice after time to think about it.

John Sabato · 07-15-2010, 04:23 PM

Navy Lugers are the rarest since most went down with the boat they were on!

The only gun I own that I would never part with is the one my father captured in WW2 and brought home. He left it to me when he passed away several years ago.

A mis-matched 1937 - S/42... a real soldier's sidearm. A real piece of my father's history.

I was told by some of my father's platoon that while interrogating the soldier he took it from he threatened that he would shoot him with his own pistol if he didn't tell my Dad what he wanted to know... (I don't think he really would have done that, but he was a very persuasive person!)

it is my favorite gun, and he was my favorite Hero... a photo of the gun isn't possible at the moment... but a photo of my father in 1943 is...

2nd Lt. John Sabato
E-Co, 39th Infantry Regiment
9th Infantry Division

Bronze Star and 2 Purple Hearts

Algeria-French Morocco
Tunisia
Sicily
Normandy
Northern France
Ardennes
Rhineland
Central Europe

1919-2005

...visit this website and you can learn more about him...

http://www.ww2survivorstories.com and click on the link entitled The Veterans...

cirelaw · 07-15-2010, 04:55 PM

I definitly find Your story facinating! The thing is that just about every Luger has its own story, one thats facinating in its own way. Thank You for sharing it. In our lives we don't own them but only a privaleged right to possess them for some finite time. I do appreciate every moment as do You its clear.

Mauser720 · 07-16-2010, 09:25 AM

In regards to this question: "First are Lugers still a sound investment?"

I have never thought of my Lugers as an "investment" in the same sense that stocks and bonds, for example, are considered an investment.

I know that over the years they have gone up in value though. I can remember when my Dad bought an all matching Luger from his brother for what I think was only $25.00. And in the seventies, I did buy a "shooter grade" Luger for $165.00.

However, there are some issues which, in my opinion, tend to detract from the desirability of Lugers as investments.

1. They are not readily converted into cash. In other words, they are not a "liquid" investment. Unlike stocks or bonds, for example, you may or may not be able to buy one today and sell it tomorrow.

2. There are no grading standards for condition. We talk about 95% and 98%, etc., but one collector's 98% condition might be another collector's 90% condition. There are no books out there which illustrate exactly what a 98% condition particular Luger should look like. Compare this situation to coins, in which collectors have access to detailed descriptions of exactly what the various conditions will exhibit.

3. There are no nationally recognized and reputable grading companies which will certify the condition of any Luger. Again, compare this coins in which there are companies which will certify condition.

4. There are some excellent books regarding the varieties of Lugers; however, there are no books which document the range of monetary values for the various Lugers. In many other collecting activities such as coins, stamps, arrowheads, comic books, etc., these valuation books do exist and they are periodically updated too.

5. In any collecting activity there is always the possibility a fake will be encountered. If you buy a gold coin from the United States mint, you know you are getting the genuine article. If you buy any Luger on any Internet web site or auction, you run the risk of getting something that is less than authentic. A good example of the problem of faking and "boosting" is the Navy Luger, for example.

6. There is no single nationally recognized organization which details standards of conduct for Luger collectors, and provides for a dispute mediation service. Now I know this may sound like a "pie in the sky" idea; however, there are such organizations in other collecting activities. In fact, if members of such organizations violate the standards of conduct, they are removed from membership in the organization. Now campare this to the attitude of "Let The Buyer Beware" which is used to permit all kinds of unethical conduct when it comes to acquiring and/or disposing of Lugers.

In summary, I know they go up in value; however, I do not think of them as an "investment" in the usual sense that we think of investments.

Rather, I enjoy them and appreciate them for their historical importance, and as some of the finest examples of firearms engineering and design to have ever been developed.

cirelaw · 07-16-2010, 10:26 AM

I agree as to bad short term investment value.Anything sold as a whim usually results as a loss. Conversally for the long term they are better than most. Anything that can easily cashed easily or as an impulse is generally a loss. You get nothing for gold jewelry. Now 8 years ago I purchased a beautiful 1920 9mm Luger Carbine from 'Gramps In The Red Jacket' for I beleive $10-$12k, Now I can't even find one. There are lugers to trade, sell or shoot and those like savings bonds to sit on and hang on a mantle. I'v never sold any of the lugers I've puchase from Gramps even those most of them as they are truly beautiful, I,ve posted these before however I still own every one.'LUGER ARE COOL'

antonio_liviero · 07-16-2010, 01:28 PM

I'm not a Luger collector, I just own one because I think it's a beautiful pistol and manufactured with standards difficult to find nowadays.
I also own other pistols. The reason I purchase a pistol is that it must be representative of some historical period, but they have to been shoot as well!
Briefly, to respond to your question, I think I will sell my Luger only in the case I find a better one (Luger) that can satisfy my desire of beauty.
And finally I've never thought to a pistol as an investment. If you make an investment, this means to buy and to sell and this is in contrast with what I've said before.
Pistols are a pleasure, to own and to shoot.
I hope I have been clear, this is not my mother tongue, but the concept is that you will never sell an object you have strongly desired.
Greetings
Antonio

John Sabato · 07-16-2010, 03:23 PM

Ciao Antonio,

You most definitely have a good command of a tongue that is not your native one. Thanks for your contribution.

Please don't hesitate to comment in the future because your are apprehensive of your language skills. I had the distinct pleasure to have lived in Italy for almost 7 years of my U.S. Army career... and your English is much better than my Italian.

cirelaw · 07-16-2010, 03:58 PM

Its amazing a firearm used solely as a weapons of Nations is now used to bring those same Nations together. Lugers have come full circle due in part to Gentlemen like yourselves and for that, We are all indebted!

07-15-2010, 02:50 PM	#1
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Luger Investment Questions Can anyone answer these questions? First are Lugers still a sound investment? What class or type has done better than others. Is it better to invest in one type or class or spead out your inventory. Finally what Luger is it that You own You would never part with? How many lugers do You think the average collector owns? I'll post my choice after time to think about it. Attached Images

07-15-2010, 04:23 PM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Navy Lugers are the rarest since most went down with the boat they were on! The only gun I own that I would never part with is the one my father captured in WW2 and brought home. He left it to me when he passed away several years ago. A mis-matched 1937 - S/42... a real soldier's sidearm. A real piece of my father's history. I was told by some of my father's platoon that while interrogating the soldier he took it from he threatened that he would shoot him with his own pistol if he didn't tell my Dad what he wanted to know... (I don't think he really would have done that, but he was a very persuasive person!) it is my favorite gun, and he was my favorite Hero... a photo of the gun isn't possible at the moment... but a photo of my father in 1943 is... 2nd Lt. John Sabato E-Co, 39th Infantry Regiment 9th Infantry Division Bronze Star and 2 Purple Hearts Algeria-French Morocco Tunisia Sicily Normandy Northern France Ardennes Rhineland Central Europe 1919-2005 ...visit this website and you can learn more about him... http://www.ww2survivorstories.com and click on the link entitled The Veterans... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-16-2010, 09:25 AM	#4
Mauser720 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 535 Thanks: 18 Thanked 49 Times in 33 Posts	In regards to this question: "First are Lugers still a sound investment?" I have never thought of my Lugers as an "investment" in the same sense that stocks and bonds, for example, are considered an investment. I know that over the years they have gone up in value though. I can remember when my Dad bought an all matching Luger from his brother for what I think was only $25.00. And in the seventies, I did buy a "shooter grade" Luger for $165.00. However, there are some issues which, in my opinion, tend to detract from the desirability of Lugers as investments. 1. They are not readily converted into cash. In other words, they are not a "liquid" investment. Unlike stocks or bonds, for example, you may or may not be able to buy one today and sell it tomorrow. 2. There are no grading standards for condition. We talk about 95% and 98%, etc., but one collector's 98% condition might be another collector's 90% condition. There are no books out there which illustrate exactly what a 98% condition particular Luger should look like. Compare this situation to coins, in which collectors have access to detailed descriptions of exactly what the various conditions will exhibit. 3. There are no nationally recognized and reputable grading companies which will certify the condition of any Luger. Again, compare this coins in which there are companies which will certify condition. 4. There are some excellent books regarding the varieties of Lugers; however, there are no books which document the range of monetary values for the various Lugers. In many other collecting activities such as coins, stamps, arrowheads, comic books, etc., these valuation books do exist and they are periodically updated too. 5. In any collecting activity there is always the possibility a fake will be encountered. If you buy a gold coin from the United States mint, you know you are getting the genuine article. If you buy any Luger on any Internet web site or auction, you run the risk of getting something that is less than authentic. A good example of the problem of faking and "boosting" is the Navy Luger, for example. 6. There is no single nationally recognized organization which details standards of conduct for Luger collectors, and provides for a dispute mediation service. Now I know this may sound like a "pie in the sky" idea; however, there are such organizations in other collecting activities. In fact, if members of such organizations violate the standards of conduct, they are removed from membership in the organization. Now campare this to the attitude of "Let The Buyer Beware" which is used to permit all kinds of unethical conduct when it comes to acquiring and/or disposing of Lugers. In summary, I know they go up in value; however, I do not think of them as an "investment" in the usual sense that we think of investments. Rather, I enjoy them and appreciate them for their historical importance, and as some of the finest examples of firearms engineering and design to have ever been developed. __________________ Mauser720 - Ron "Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it."

07-16-2010, 10:26 AM	#5
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Not A Good In The Short Term I agree as to bad short term investment value.Anything sold as a whim usually results as a loss. Conversally for the long term they are better than most. Anything that can easily cashed easily or as an impulse is generally a loss. You get nothing for gold jewelry. Now 8 years ago I purchased a beautiful 1920 9mm Luger Carbine from 'Gramps In The Red Jacket' for I beleive $10-$12k, Now I can't even find one. There are lugers to trade, sell or shoot and those like savings bonds to sit on and hang on a mantle. I'v never sold any of the lugers I've puchase from Gramps even those most of them as they are truly beautiful, I,ve posted these before however I still own every one.'LUGER ARE COOL' Attached Thumbnails

07-16-2010, 03:23 PM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Ciao Antonio, You most definitely have a good command of a tongue that is not your native one. Thanks for your contribution. Please don't hesitate to comment in the future because your are apprehensive of your language skills. I had the distinct pleasure to have lived in Italy for almost 7 years of my U.S. Army career... and your English is much better than my Italian. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-15-2010, 04:55 PM	#3
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	I definitly find Your story facinating! The thing is that just about every Luger has its own story, one thats facinating in its own way. Thank You for sharing it. In our lives we don't own them but only a privaleged right to possess them for some finite time. I do appreciate every moment as do You its clear.

07-16-2010, 01:28 PM	#6
antonio_liviero User Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Italy Posts: 43 Thanks: 8 Thanked 12 Times in 8 Posts	I'm not a Luger collector, I just own one because I think it's a beautiful pistol and manufactured with standards difficult to find nowadays. I also own other pistols. The reason I purchase a pistol is that it must be representative of some historical period, but they have to been shoot as well! Briefly, to respond to your question, I think I will sell my Luger only in the case I find a better one (Luger) that can satisfy my desire of beauty. And finally I've never thought to a pistol as an investment. If you make an investment, this means to buy and to sell and this is in contrast with what I've said before. Pistols are a pleasure, to own and to shoot. I hope I have been clear, this is not my mother tongue, but the concept is that you will never sell an object you have strongly desired. Greetings Antonio

07-16-2010, 03:58 PM	#8
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Its amazing a firearm used solely as a weapons of Nations is now used to bring those same Nations together. Lugers have come full circle due in part to Gentlemen like yourselves and for that, We are all indebted!