1900 miss-match what do I have?

MichaelH · 11-05-2023, 12:33 PM

Greetings! I've away from the forum for too long! I recently purchased a 1900 Luger that is quite miss-matched for a shooter. The frame is 13XXC, the only part that matches that is the magazine, and the only magazine I have that will fit in the gun is the one that came with it. The frame has the early long low checkered safety. None of the other parts that are numbered match each other or the frame. The barrel is not numbered. I'm not familiar with 1900s, is it normal for other Luger mags to not fit? The grips show some machining on the inside, but also some obvious hand fitting. The right grip has a palm swell, not too large, but there. There are no proof marks anywhere. I've been shooting Lugers since the 1970s and I always look for miss-matched ones for shooters. I've not had one before quite as miss-matched as this. I've shot it with PPU ammo, other that the extractor having lost its temper it works fine.

Ron Wood · 11-05-2023, 01:18 PM

Need some photos badly! The only 1900 Lugers with non-interchangeable magazines are the very early unrelieved frame guns that required the "flat button" magazines. A frame with a 13XXC serial number is way too high to be an unrelieved frame and a flat button magazine would not be numbered. Is the "C" really a suffix of the serial number or located below the serial number?
Ron

MichaelH · 11-05-2023, 03:04 PM

Thank you for your reply. The magazine that works has a slightly smaller button than the magazine from my Artillery Luger. That magazine will not go in because the button sticks up too high. On the magazine with the 1900 in C is below the rest of the serial number. Most of the other mags (including the one for my post war Mauser 29/70) will go part way in and then jam as the mag well is too narrow or short. Some mags jam at the top rounded part of the mag well as the radius of the mag well at that point does not match the shape of the front of the magazine. I'll try to get some pictures.

Ron Wood · 11-05-2023, 03:18 PM

Thank you! Please include the frame serial number photo and a photo of the bottom of the grip where the magazine is inserted.
Ron

MichaelH · 11-06-2023, 08:13 PM

These should be pictures of my 1900. Also a 1920 Finnish 9mm.

MichaelH · 11-06-2023, 08:17 PM

Still learning how this works.

MichaelH · 11-06-2023, 08:19 PM

Sill learning!

Mac Cat · 11-06-2023, 09:53 PM

This appears to be a very early 1900 model
The barrel is a 7.65mm (120mm ??) - is it unmarked ?
The serial number is 13x2 (no suffix).

What makes you think it's a mismatched luger ?
I think it is a 1900 Commercial.
Does it have commercial stamps (B, U, or G)?

It is called "unrelieved" luger because the magazine channel was not cut deep
in the earliest lugers. The early magazines had a very flat loading button.
Only the very early magazines will fit in it.

It seems right to me:
It's a long frame.
It has the safety in the up position to fire and no hold-open.
There is no lanyard loop and it has the wide trigger.
It has the checkered safety lever.
I think the Swiss model would have a wider grip safety (not sure).

The small parts are strawed, too.

Please provide more photos of the chamber, top, right receiver area, rear toggle and the barrel.

The inscription on the left ear is unusual - someone used an electro pencil to inscribe it with the word "Gesichert" (for secured or safe position).

MichaelH · 11-10-2023, 09:49 PM

Thanks for all the information! I took some measurements of my various Lugers. The 1900 at the round part of the magwell at the top is 0.446" wide. All my other Lugers are about 0.475" wide at the same point. The feedway to clear the magazine button total width of the magwell on the 1900 is 0.630" The other Lugers is about 0.668". The font on the "C" at the end of the serial number is not a font I've seen on other Lugers. I wonder when this gun was re-built if it was "force matched" to the magazine as it would actually fit in the gun. The magazine with it has the later staked in follower button. OK, the frame and magazine are # 1396C with a capital roman "C". The barrel is unnumbered. Barrel extension/upper receiver 78. Breechblock 83. Center toggle link 40. Rear toggle 18, Sideplate 54. Trigger (narrow trigger) 72. Grip Safety 10. If I break any parts on this gun the replacement may actually make the gun more matching.

MichaelH · 11-17-2023, 06:30 PM

I got my extractor so I took out the 1900 Luger today. The new manufactured Lugerman extractor fit perfectly,

worked perfectly, and looked perfect.

I had two different brands of ammo, PPU and Fiocchi "Heritage". The Fiocchi has a shorter overall length

than the PPU, but worked perfectly in both the magazine that came with the pistol and the Triple K magazine

I was able to modify to fit in the very early 1900 frame. The PPU ammo worked fine in the original magazine,

but the breach did not close completely on the fourth round with the Triple K magazine. A slight push with my

left thumb was enough to close the breach.

Ejection was to the right slightly and back about 7 feet. The Fiocchi brass was grouped close together, the PPU

more spread out.

The groups with both types of ammo were about 4 inches high at 25 yards. Group size was not that great, I will

blame it on not being used to the trigger pull yet.

All in all, a 123 year old pistol made up from totally miss-matched parts worked almost perfectly after the

replacement of one part.

I'm pleased. Now to get used to that trigger.

Mac Cat · 11-17-2023, 07:14 PM

Thanks for the range report !
I'm glad it works well, too.

It's certainly an interesting luger.

MichaelH · 03-22-2024, 06:34 PM

Well I got the 1900 “No Matching Parts” Luger out and shot it for the first time this year. I had opened up the mag well a bit and now had several magazines that would fit in this gun. The weather was perfect. The gun worked pretty well, the magazine for my 29/70 Mauser Luger often required I give the toggle a slap to get it to close. My groups were only fair, all on the paper at 25 yards. I had not done any shooting since mid November, and this was only the third time I had shot this pistol. I fired Finnochi “Legend’ ammo PPU ammo, and 10 rounds of handloaed ammo using a 78 gr coated lead bullet meant for 32 S&W short. I also use this bullet for 7.65 French Long in my 1935A pistol and an H&R break top 32 S&W. A few of the handloads had to be tapped closed, otherwise they shot like the other ammo.

Also fired that day, my 29/70 Swiss style Mauser Luger w/6 inch barrel in 9mm and a MKVI Webley converted to use downloaded .45 ACP with half moon clips.

11-05-2023, 12:33 PM	#1
MichaelH User Join Date: Nov 2023 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 15 Times in 8 Posts	1900 miss-match what do I have? Greetings! I've away from the forum for too long! I recently purchased a 1900 Luger that is quite miss-matched for a shooter. The frame is 13XXC, the only part that matches that is the magazine, and the only magazine I have that will fit in the gun is the one that came with it. The frame has the early long low checkered safety. None of the other parts that are numbered match each other or the frame. The barrel is not numbered. I'm not familiar with 1900s, is it normal for other Luger mags to not fit? The grips show some machining on the inside, but also some obvious hand fitting. The right grip has a palm swell, not too large, but there. There are no proof marks anywhere. I've been shooting Lugers since the 1970s and I always look for miss-matched ones for shooters. I've not had one before quite as miss-matched as this. I've shot it with PPU ammo, other that the extractor having lost its temper it works fine.

11-05-2023, 01:18 PM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Need some photos badly! The only 1900 Lugers with non-interchangeable magazines are the very early unrelieved frame guns that required the "flat button" magazines. A frame with a 13XXC serial number is way too high to be an unrelieved frame and a flat button magazine would not be numbered. Is the "C" really a suffix of the serial number or located below the serial number? Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

11-05-2023, 03:18 PM	#4
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Thank you! Please include the frame serial number photo and a photo of the bottom of the grip where the magazine is inserted. Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

11-06-2023, 08:13 PM	#5
MichaelH User Join Date: Nov 2023 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 15 Times in 8 Posts	1900 pics (I hope) These should be pictures of my 1900. Also a 1920 Finnish 9mm. Attached Thumbnails

11-06-2023, 08:17 PM	#6
MichaelH User Join Date: Nov 2023 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 15 Times in 8 Posts	More pics. Still learning how this works. Attached Thumbnails

11-05-2023, 03:04 PM	#3
MichaelH User Join Date: Nov 2023 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 15 Times in 8 Posts	Thank you for your reply. The magazine that works has a slightly smaller button than the magazine from my Artillery Luger. That magazine will not go in because the button sticks up too high. On the magazine with the 1900 in C is below the rest of the serial number. Most of the other mags (including the one for my post war Mauser 29/70) will go part way in and then jam as the mag well is too narrow or short. Some mags jam at the top rounded part of the mag well as the radius of the mag well at that point does not match the shape of the front of the magazine. I'll try to get some pictures.

11-06-2023, 08:19 PM	#7
MichaelH User Join Date: Nov 2023 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 15 Times in 8 Posts	Sill learning! Attached Thumbnails

11-06-2023, 09:53 PM	#8
Mac Cat Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 670 Thanks: 2,009 Thanked 542 Times in 292 Posts	This appears to be a very early 1900 model The barrel is a 7.65mm (120mm ??) - is it unmarked ? The serial number is 13x2 (no suffix). What makes you think it's a mismatched luger ? I think it is a 1900 Commercial. Does it have commercial stamps (B, U, or G)? It is called "unrelieved" luger because the magazine channel was not cut deep in the earliest lugers. The early magazines had a very flat loading button. Only the very early magazines will fit in it. It seems right to me: It's a long frame. It has the safety in the up position to fire and no hold-open. There is no lanyard loop and it has the wide trigger. It has the checkered safety lever. I think the Swiss model would have a wider grip safety (not sure). The small parts are strawed, too. Please provide more photos of the chamber, top, right receiver area, rear toggle and the barrel. The inscription on the left ear is unusual - someone used an electro pencil to inscribe it with the word "Gesichert" (for secured or safe position).

11-10-2023, 09:49 PM	#9
MichaelH User Join Date: Nov 2023 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 15 Times in 8 Posts	Thanks for all the information! I took some measurements of my various Lugers. The 1900 at the round part of the magwell at the top is 0.446" wide. All my other Lugers are about 0.475" wide at the same point. The feedway to clear the magazine button total width of the magwell on the 1900 is 0.630" The other Lugers is about 0.668". The font on the "C" at the end of the serial number is not a font I've seen on other Lugers. I wonder when this gun was re-built if it was "force matched" to the magazine as it would actually fit in the gun. The magazine with it has the later staked in follower button. OK, the frame and magazine are # 1396C with a capital roman "C". The barrel is unnumbered. Barrel extension/upper receiver 78. Breechblock 83. Center toggle link 40. Rear toggle 18, Sideplate 54. Trigger (narrow trigger) 72. Grip Safety 10. If I break any parts on this gun the replacement may actually make the gun more matching.

11-17-2023, 06:30 PM	#10
MichaelH User Join Date: Nov 2023 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 15 Times in 8 Posts	I got my extractor so I took out the 1900 Luger today. The new manufactured Lugerman extractor fit perfectly, worked perfectly, and looked perfect. I had two different brands of ammo, PPU and Fiocchi "Heritage". The Fiocchi has a shorter overall length than the PPU, but worked perfectly in both the magazine that came with the pistol and the Triple K magazine I was able to modify to fit in the very early 1900 frame. The PPU ammo worked fine in the original magazine, but the breach did not close completely on the fourth round with the Triple K magazine. A slight push with my left thumb was enough to close the breach. Ejection was to the right slightly and back about 7 feet. The Fiocchi brass was grouped close together, the PPU more spread out. The groups with both types of ammo were about 4 inches high at 25 yards. Group size was not that great, I will blame it on not being used to the trigger pull yet. All in all, a 123 year old pistol made up from totally miss-matched parts worked almost perfectly after the replacement of one part. I'm pleased. Now to get used to that trigger.

11-17-2023, 07:14 PM	#11
Mac Cat Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 670 Thanks: 2,009 Thanked 542 Times in 292 Posts	Thanks for the range report ! I'm glad it works well, too. It's certainly an interesting luger.

03-22-2024, 06:34 PM	#12
MichaelH User Join Date: Nov 2023 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 15 Times in 8 Posts	Well I got the 1900 “No Matching Parts” Luger out and shot it for the first time this year. I had opened up the mag well a bit and now had several magazines that would fit in this gun. The weather was perfect. The gun worked pretty well, the magazine for my 29/70 Mauser Luger often required I give the toggle a slap to get it to close. My groups were only fair, all on the paper at 25 yards. I had not done any shooting since mid November, and this was only the third time I had shot this pistol. I fired Finnochi “Legend’ ammo PPU ammo, and 10 rounds of handloaed ammo using a 78 gr coated lead bullet meant for 32 S&W short. I also use this bullet for 7.65 French Long in my 1935A pistol and an H&R break top 32 S&W. A few of the handloads had to be tapped closed, otherwise they shot like the other ammo. Also fired that day, my 29/70 Swiss style Mauser Luger w/6 inch barrel in 9mm and a MKVI Webley converted to use downloaded .45 ACP with half moon clips.