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Unread 05-17-2019, 08:31 PM   #1
Ehines1
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Default "New" Erma EP-22

Picked up the closest thing I have (and will probably ever have thanks to Murphy's law) to a Luger, a 1968 Erma EP22 (I also have a KGP68A in 32, but at 2/3 scale, it's not as close to an original as this). After a fresh coat of paint on the frame and a very thorough clean and lube, it runs almost flawlessly. I say almost because occasionally a round won't go off (almost always Winchester Super X). I had hoped buying it would calm the "Luger fever" as my friend calls it. It instead made it worse to the point I'm considering selling my entire gun collection just to buy a beat to snot original.
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Unread 05-18-2019, 12:12 PM   #2
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Default Cheap

If you look around you can get a decent shooter for under $1,000.
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Unread 05-18-2019, 03:11 PM   #3
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The Erma 22cal handguns can be very ammo sensitive......just like some P08 Lugers. I own two(2) Erma "carbines", and they only like what they like.....change brands, and jam-a-matic.
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Unread 05-18-2019, 03:37 PM   #4
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Mine absolutely loves the cheap Aguila. My 32 Erma will only eat Fiocchi though, so definitely ammo sensitive.
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Unread 05-19-2019, 03:38 PM   #5
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My Ermas love the cheap Winchester Wildcat ammo.....I am glad to say!!
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Unread 05-21-2019, 12:07 PM   #6
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The early cast zinc alloy Ermas are very close to the size and weight of the Parabellum. Aside from the barrel liner, breech block, and small internals -- FP, springs, pins, etc.-- they're constructed entirely of cast Zamak. Original finish was achieved by a blackening process for zinc alloy castings, with chemistry that's quite different from that used on steel. They're problematic to refinish, so a coat of semi-flat black Krylon or Cerokote is probably your best bet. Your KGP 69A, however, is sort of the reverse, only the grip frame and the trigger are Zamak. Each series has its foibles and potential issues.

The earlier ones are indeed sensitive to both ammo and how the mags are tuned. Good that you've found an ammo it likes. The several I have prefer CCI MiniMags and Remington Thunderbolt. Some of them work best with round nose ammo, others like hollow points. Aftermarket mags for the La- and Ep-22 are generally junk, so seek and obtain factory originals, which are robustly built, hold their tuning better, and have springs that seem to last forever.

Whatever you do DO NOT run them with Stingers, Velocitors, or any other rounds rated hyper-velocity -- or you will be contacting me for a new front toggle link! Even a round or two will over-stress the action with too much energy and the "ears" of the front link where it attaches to the breech block will snap right off.

For the best chance at reliable feeding. make sure all the feed lips are straight and smooth. The rear lips should be parallel, and the front lips adjusted to allow virtually no lateral play as the round rises amd moves forward. Sometimes adjusting them to allow a slight "tickle" of resistance to the round's passage between them will minimize a stovepipe or nose-up jam with the tip of the bullet dug into the sharp upper edge of the breech.

One excellent acquaintance I've made in my Erma "travels" is Holger Schlemeier, who has authored what promises to be THE book about Erma-Werke's history and production. The German version of the book is being printed, and an English translation is in the works and should be available in a year or so. He collected serial numbers and proof/importer markings for almost a decade over on Gunboards to establish a data base. Most respondents reported their toggle pistols, but Erma made all sorts of .22, .32, and .380 guns incorporating cast Zamak frames and other parts. Ithaca imported and branded their lever action saddle guns in the 70s, and the Henry .22 rifles are now constructed to that design, which the company acquired, identical except for a slight improvement to the breech block. Iver Johnson, Excam, LA Industries were some of the other importers.

If I'm not mistaken, Beeman was among the last, and distributed KGP series pistols branded to them towards Erma's bitter end. The Beeman pistols have excellent finish and artisan rosewood grips which were installed once they reached the U.S. I bought the last of the plastic factory take-offs a few years ago from Dr. Airgun himself and still have some left. He was having serious health problems at the time, but was still able to do some business in between visits for treatment. I can't find an obituary, so presume he's still kicking. He's an interesting guy with a degree in Biology, and gave his employees Darwin's birthday as a paid holiday. Beeman airguns are of excellent quality.
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Unread 05-21-2019, 08:19 PM   #7
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I need to get the KGP68A's frame repainted or cerakoted. It was actually my first pistol, even qualified for my CCW with the thing before I picked up a Makarov to carry. With the EP, I found out that a new magazine spring (it's from some kind of Smith and Wesson iirc) can make a huge difference. Went from not being able to empty a mag without a misfeed to no misfeeds unless using hollow points. I definitely like both of my Ermas and will have to keep my eye out for that book.
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Unread 01-20-2020, 10:21 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ehines1 View Post
I need to get the KGP68A's frame repainted or cerakoted.
Normal paint has no particular affinity for Zamak, nor is it very durable. It will rub/flake off eventually. The semi-flat black version of Cerokote is probably your best bet. It might be possible to start out with their dark blue, but mix in enough black to mimic the blue/black you'd get from rust bluing. (A touch of white might also be necessary.)

One of the things on my TD list is to try out two different chemical treatments to re-blacken these zinc alloy pistols. One is a cold, single dip process, the other is done hot after a pre-dip in prep chemical.

In the several years I've been pursuing Erma finish issues, I've never encountered any place or person who's said, "Oh, sure, we do that all the time, with good results." So it would appear that the world is waiting for how effective my efforts turn out to be.
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Unread 03-25-2024, 02:39 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Ehines1 View Post
I definitely like both of my Ermas and will have to keep my eye out for that book.
Here ya go!

https://www.amazon.com/ERMA-Erfurter...s%2C160&sr=8-1



https://www.amazon.com/ERMA-Erfurter...s%2C160&sr=8-3



https://www.amazon.com/ERMA-Erfurter...s%2C160&sr=8-2
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Unread 06-14-2020, 08:41 AM   #10
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Default Re ERMA ammo sensitivity

Re ERMA ammo sensitivity

see attached post start on page 3
https://www.mdshooters.com/showthrea...=218955&page=3

These shooters in Maryland analysed the jamming and It would appear that the chamber was not deep enough for most 22LR and the projectile was in the lands before fully chambering - just enough to jam the reload.

Reaming the chamber a fraction deeper seemed to solve the jamming
a good read for ERMA owners
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Unread 06-15-2020, 10:27 AM   #11
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Thanks for this linked forum thread, Geoff!

The idea has been around for a couple of years, I've noticed, which corresponds with these postings from 2018. From what I've gathered, this fix seems effective.

There's a YouTube of a guy reaming his chamber so that the round drops right in instead of meeting the resistance, but there's not been a follow-up video of the results. I've been planning on this fix for quite a while, but unsure of which design of .22lr chamber reamer to rent/buy--there are about 2 dozen different sets of specs for them, many named for the specific rounds they're for. Perhaps this info is contained in the thread, which I've bookmarked for reading in its entirety later.

I have several small frame Llamas in .22lr, and they seem to display the same hesitation to function without similar jamming. I'm fairly confident that since they were also made in Europe, it's the same deal.

edit: I went through the entire MD Shooters' thread, and it turns out the YouTuber is among their ranks, and he reported his successful results in the thread! I joined up in order to leave a cautionary comment about using Stingers of Velocitors, which are "hyper-velocity" rounds. They're energetic enough to bottom out the action, slamming its components against each other. The excessive impulse will result in breaking the "ears" on the front of the front toggle link right off. (Bob's in Arkansas and I offer the links for under $50.)
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Unread 11-10-2023, 10:00 PM   #12
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I have an Erma La-22, i believe this is the first version of their .22 Luger. I've had this one for about 22 years. It shoots well with round nose CCI Mini mags. I had a problem with the trigger not connecting to the sear. The frame and barrel extension/upper receiver are Zamak (otherwise known as pot metal) The connecting pin is steel. The receiver openings had gotten enlarged being in contact with the steel pin all these years and the upper receiver sat just enough back for the disconnector to not allow the gun to fire. A small piece of nylon on the face of the steel pin was enough to bring the parts in proper alignment. Otherwise, it runs great until it gets dirty. It is quite accurate even after almost 60 years. I also have an ET-22 Erma "Navy Model" though it looks like a Luger Carbine. This also likes CCI Mini Mags and functions well all the time.
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Unread 03-24-2024, 06:20 PM   #13
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ithac ----- These discussions about Erma .22 pieces reminded me of a .22 conversion for a luger pistol that I've had for many years. It's all steel and contained in a very nice wooden box. The box is stamped with a Nazi acceptance stamp just beside the name "ERMA" on the front. The toggle, magazine and insert .22 cal. barrel are all matching numbers and stamped with Nazi proof and acceptance stamps. I've installed the conversion pieces in one of my shooter lugers just to see how everything fit together, and they did. I never fired the unit however. It is not for sale. If you would care to see some photos on the conversion unit I could provide.
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Unread 03-25-2024, 02:34 PM   #14
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Sure...everybody likes pics!
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