Take down lever (which way?)

Tony Min · 09-20-2013, 10:51 PM

So I think my take down lever spring is a little weak and just now I was messing with it.
Is the lever held in at all? With it in the down position I pulled on it a little and it started coming out. It scared me as I didn't have my slop sink handy. Put it popped right back in.
Luger doc? Are you around? I sent email and PM this week asking for take down lever spring. Hope you are ok.
Thanks

ithacaartist · 09-21-2013, 09:58 AM

Tony,

It sounds like it's weak or broken, and you should embark on the journey of replacing it. Lugerdoc checks in about once a week, I think, to answer questions like this and let you know if he has the part in stock. If you sent a PM, he'll get to it eventually.

mrerick · 09-21-2013, 11:26 AM

Tom normally has these springs in stock.

There should be a slight curve and thinning in the middle of the long arm of this spring.

It's held in place by the take down lever itself.

The curve slips into the slot cut into the take down lever in both the open and closed positions. If the spring is weak or has flattened out, it becomes too easy to slip the take down lever out of the frame when it's in the down position.

Marc

Arizona Slim · 09-21-2013, 11:34 AM

Tony, lugerdoc is in the process of changing his email address next week to lugerdoc@charter.net if that name is available, you may give it a try.

Lon

Tony Min · 09-21-2013, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrerick

Tom normally has these springs in stock.

There should be a slight curve and thinning in the middle of the long arm of this spring.

It's held in place by the take down lever itself.

The curve slips into the slot cut into the take down lever in both the open and closed positions. If the spring is weak or has flattened out, it becomes too easy to slip the take down lever out of the frame when it's in the down position.

Marc

That is exactly what is happening.
I PM's Lugerdoc and sent an email to his new email address. Hopefully he will see my PM so I can get a new spring.

Ben M. · 09-21-2013, 08:35 PM

his phone number is listed in the links -n- resources section along the left side of the homepage of the forum too.

Tony Min · 09-21-2013, 08:40 PM

Thanks, I will call him. He is probably still switching his service provider which might not be so easy on his Commodore 64...

Tony Min · 09-22-2013, 04:44 PM

Went shooting again today but didn't fire the Luger much. Every third shot or so the take down lever moves down. Then to safely push it back you have to take out the mag, clear the gun and push back on the slide. Also I am worried about hurting something.
I will call Lugerdoc tomorrow. I don't want to bother him on a Sunday.
I won't be shooting for a few weeks anyway since my wedding is October 6th.
Still had fun today with the P38 and my AR.

DavidJayUden · 09-22-2013, 04:59 PM

Congratulations on your upcoming marital bliss.
dju

Arizona Slim · 09-22-2013, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Min

Went shooting again today but didn't fire the Luger much. Every third shot or so the take down lever moves down. Then to safely push it back you have to take out the mag, clear the gun and push back on the slide. Also I am worried about hurting something.
I will call Lugerdoc tomorrow. I don't want to bother him on a Sunday.
I won't be shooting for a few weeks anyway since my wedding is October 6th.
Still had fun today with the P38 and my AR.

Congratulations and all the best with your new married life, and since we all like to give well intentioned advice in cases like this here is mine: Do whatever you have to do to convince her that investing in Lugers is a wise financial decision that will be a great benefit to her well being in her later years, may not work but what the heck, it's worth a try. And before you ask the inevitable question, no, it hasn't worked for me yet but I have only been married 52 years so I figure I still have time left to convince her.

Lon

Tony Min · 09-22-2013, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arizona Slim

Congratulations and all the best with your new married life, and since we all like to give well intentioned advice in cases like this here is mine: Do whatever you have to do to convince her that investing in Lugers is a wise financial decision that will be a great benefit to her well being in her later years, may not work but what the heck, it's worth a try. And before you ask the inevitable questioned, no, it hasn't worked for me yet but I have only been married 52 years so I figure I still have time left to convince her.

Lon

So far she tells me when it is ok to buy my next gun. My new date is after January 1st....
I have a few more other pistols I want before additional Lugers but I do want more.
Next is a ww2 Army 1911. After that is a Lufwaffe Walther PP. Unless I run into a good deal Luger. Luger wise I would like a BYF 42. The P38 I picked up recently is a rare BYF 42 so that might be a way of collecting. Try to get everything in 1942

That said, I love the 1916 DWM I just got. It is a fine gun and I don't think I will ever sell it. It shoots dead on at 25 yards.

Tony Min · 09-30-2013, 09:27 PM

Got the take down lever spring from Lugerdoc today. Thanks Tom.
Well, this thing is tiny. Let me compare it to the old one. Hmm, looks the same. Got the old one in my left hand and the new one in my right hand.
Wait, got the old one in my right hand and the new one in my left hand....
****
Let me look at them under a magnifying glass. Hmm, this must be the new one.
So, I slipped it in place. Cleaned out the grooves and the lever slips right in. No slop sink, no hips.
Hmm, doesn't seem like much more resistance? Could I have?
Ok, take the lever back out and compare them again. Maybe this is the new one???
Put it in place and slipped the lever right back in. No slop sink, no hips.
I think the lever has a fraction more resistance. But I was expecting more. I won't be able to shoot for a couple of weeks to find out.
Dang!

ithacaartist · 09-30-2013, 10:05 PM

Tony,

If this is the case, check the condition of the edges of the little grooves in the shaft of the takedown lever, in and out of which the "hump" in the spring slips as the lever is rotated. Are they well-defined, or rounded and worn? With the upper removed, is there there play allowed for the lever when it and the spring are in place? Obvious or easily-obtainable play might point to excessive wear of the hole. You might be able to use the shank of a drill bit from a numbered index to check the fit to see if the hole thru the front of the frame is out of round. If the bit just makes it through, but can still be wiggled in one direction, the hole is oval, likely from the forceful hammering it takes when the upper returns to battery--The lever in the hole is the top assembly's forward "stop".

I hesitate to say it, because some other members may roast me, but adjusting the tang of the side plate to ride a bit off the frame might just do the trick. It is a common remedy for firming up a side plate that "jiggles" as the trigger system is tensioned by pressing the trigger. You have heretofore made no mention of that problem, but perhaps it has not been noticed. But this approach may just give the lever a touch more resistance to rotating when the mainspring pressure on it is temporarily relieved during a cycle. The more official restorative approach would be to have the deficit filled by TIG welding and then re-establish the precise diameter hole. I think compensating for it would be my choice, so as not to disturb the finish--and to spare major outlay of $$$.

I don't need to relate again how this adjustment is accomplished as it has been discussed several times on the forum--once, fairly recently. Just do a search for "loose side plate".

Tony Min · 09-30-2013, 10:23 PM

The side plate is not loose and the lever has no play. The groove edges in the lever are nice and square.
What I was thinking was that if this slightly extra resistance wasn't enough to keep the lever up to try to bend the old take down lever spring a little to give it a bit more bend.
I realize this is hardened and might not work. What about that?
It might be fixed already as there is a slight click when I lower the lever with the, what I think is the, new spring. I was just expecting more.

Tony Min · 09-30-2013, 11:55 PM

Well, I couldn't leave well enough alone.
So I took what I think is the old spring and bent it a little. It actually bends pretty easy and must not be that hardened.
The lever got a little harder to put in but the lever still is pretty easy to lower. So I kept adjusting it.
I had to tap the lever in by the third adjustment but the lever is still pretty easy to lower. Though it has a bit more of a notch. But not as much as when it is completely down.
I examined the slot again and it looks fine and the edges are not at all round. I am not really sure what is going on.

I can't understand how adjusting the side plate would affect the take down lever but I will do some searches. Though I am not going to rush into any adjustments there. It might be fine the way it is and I will wait with further work until I get a chance to shoot it.

I am open to more opinions about this issue.

Zorba · 10-01-2013, 12:41 AM

In the FWIW dept, mine is so tight that I have to use the tool to open the lever (Yes, I'm pressing/holding the barrel back). Closing it is tight, but not prohibitively so.

Tony Min · 10-01-2013, 12:44 AM

That is what I was expecting with a new spring. I don't think the hole is oversized. There is no jiggle and the fit seems good. I am kind of stumped.

Tony Min · 10-02-2013, 01:53 AM

Nobody has ever run into this problem?

alanint · 10-02-2013, 04:45 AM

Bending the sideplate "ear" out a bit creates tention against the takedown lever, once it starts rotating and locking itself into the frame. It is unusual to find a lever that is this loose once you have addressed all the issues you describe. The only thing that comes to mind is to try a different lever to see if that functions normally.

Your original lever may have been buffed just past "spec" by a factory worker, thus making it always a loose fit.

Tony Min · 10-02-2013, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

Bending the sideplate "ear" out a bit creates tention against the takedown lever, once it starts rotating and locking itself into the frame. It is unusual to find a lever that is this loose once you have addressed all the issues you describe. The only thing that comes to mind is to try a different lever to see if that functions normally.

Your original lever may have been buffed just past "spec" by a factory worker, thus making it always a loose fit.

Oh, I get it now. That makes sense. I will try that. Thanks

09-20-2013, 10:51 PM	#1
Tony Min User Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 169 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts	Take down lever (which way?) So I think my take down lever spring is a little weak and just now I was messing with it. Is the lever held in at all? With it in the down position I pulled on it a little and it started coming out. It scared me as I didn't have my slop sink handy. Put it popped right back in. Luger doc? Are you around? I sent email and PM this week asking for take down lever spring. Hope you are ok. Thanks Last edited by Tony Min; 10-02-2013 at 08:01 PM. Reason: edit title

09-21-2013, 09:58 AM	#2
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,286 Thanks: 7,023 Thanked 2,480 Times in 1,321 Posts	Tony, It sounds like it's weak or broken, and you should embark on the journey of replacing it. Lugerdoc checks in about once a week, I think, to answer questions like this and let you know if he has the part in stock. If you sent a PM, he'll get to it eventually. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

09-21-2013, 11:26 AM	#3
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Tom normally has these springs in stock. There should be a slight curve and thinning in the middle of the long arm of this spring. It's held in place by the take down lever itself. The curve slips into the slot cut into the take down lever in both the open and closed positions. If the spring is weak or has flattened out, it becomes too easy to slip the take down lever out of the frame when it's in the down position. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

09-30-2013, 10:05 PM	#13
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,286 Thanks: 7,023 Thanked 2,480 Times in 1,321 Posts	Tony, If this is the case, check the condition of the edges of the little grooves in the shaft of the takedown lever, in and out of which the "hump" in the spring slips as the lever is rotated. Are they well-defined, or rounded and worn? With the upper removed, is there there play allowed for the lever when it and the spring are in place? Obvious or easily-obtainable play might point to excessive wear of the hole. You might be able to use the shank of a drill bit from a numbered index to check the fit to see if the hole thru the front of the frame is out of round. If the bit just makes it through, but can still be wiggled in one direction, the hole is oval, likely from the forceful hammering it takes when the upper returns to battery--The lever in the hole is the top assembly's forward "stop". I hesitate to say it, because some other members may roast me, but adjusting the tang of the side plate to ride a bit off the frame might just do the trick. It is a common remedy for firming up a side plate that "jiggles" as the trigger system is tensioned by pressing the trigger. You have heretofore made no mention of that problem, but perhaps it has not been noticed. But this approach may just give the lever a touch more resistance to rotating when the mainspring pressure on it is temporarily relieved during a cycle. The more official restorative approach would be to have the deficit filled by TIG welding and then re-establish the precise diameter hole. I think compensating for it would be my choice, so as not to disturb the finish--and to spare major outlay of $$$. I don't need to relate again how this adjustment is accomplished as it has been discussed several times on the forum--once, fairly recently. Just do a search for "loose side plate". __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

09-21-2013, 11:34 AM	#4
Arizona Slim Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 706 Thanks: 1,026 Thanked 409 Times in 225 Posts	Tony, lugerdoc is in the process of changing his email address next week to lugerdoc@charter.net if that name is available, you may give it a try. Lon

09-21-2013, 08:35 PM	#6
Ben M. User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Retired to Naples, FL. Posts: 476 Thanks: 83 Thanked 117 Times in 79 Posts	his phone number is listed in the links -n- resources section along the left side of the homepage of the forum too.

09-21-2013, 08:40 PM	#7
Tony Min User Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 169 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts	Thanks, I will call him. He is probably still switching his service provider which might not be so easy on his Commodore 64...

09-22-2013, 04:44 PM	#8
Tony Min User Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 169 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts	Went shooting again today but didn't fire the Luger much. Every third shot or so the take down lever moves down. Then to safely push it back you have to take out the mag, clear the gun and push back on the slide. Also I am worried about hurting something. I will call Lugerdoc tomorrow. I don't want to bother him on a Sunday. I won't be shooting for a few weeks anyway since my wedding is October 6th. Still had fun today with the P38 and my AR.

09-22-2013, 04:59 PM	#9
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Congratulations on your upcoming marital bliss. dju

09-30-2013, 09:27 PM	#12
Tony Min User Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 169 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts	Got the take down lever spring from Lugerdoc today. Thanks Tom. Well, this thing is tiny. Let me compare it to the old one. Hmm, looks the same. Got the old one in my left hand and the new one in my right hand. Wait, got the old one in my right hand and the new one in my left hand.... **** Let me look at them under a magnifying glass. Hmm, this must be the new one. So, I slipped it in place. Cleaned out the grooves and the lever slips right in. No slop sink, no hips. Hmm, doesn't seem like much more resistance? Could I have? Ok, take the lever back out and compare them again. Maybe this is the new one??? Put it in place and slipped the lever right back in. No slop sink, no hips. I think the lever has a fraction more resistance. But I was expecting more. I won't be able to shoot for a couple of weeks to find out. Dang!

09-30-2013, 10:23 PM	#14
Tony Min User Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 169 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts	The side plate is not loose and the lever has no play. The groove edges in the lever are nice and square. What I was thinking was that if this slightly extra resistance wasn't enough to keep the lever up to try to bend the old take down lever spring a little to give it a bit more bend. I realize this is hardened and might not work. What about that? It might be fixed already as there is a slight click when I lower the lever with the, what I think is the, new spring. I was just expecting more.

09-30-2013, 11:55 PM	#15
Tony Min User Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 169 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts	Well, I couldn't leave well enough alone. So I took what I think is the old spring and bent it a little. It actually bends pretty easy and must not be that hardened. The lever got a little harder to put in but the lever still is pretty easy to lower. So I kept adjusting it. I had to tap the lever in by the third adjustment but the lever is still pretty easy to lower. Though it has a bit more of a notch. But not as much as when it is completely down. I examined the slot again and it looks fine and the edges are not at all round. I am not really sure what is going on. I can't understand how adjusting the side plate would affect the take down lever but I will do some searches. Though I am not going to rush into any adjustments there. It might be fine the way it is and I will wait with further work until I get a chance to shoot it. I am open to more opinions about this issue.

10-01-2013, 12:41 AM	#16
Zorba User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Merritt Island, Fl Posts: 951 Thanks: 776 Thanked 526 Times in 289 Posts	In the FWIW dept, mine is so tight that I have to use the tool to open the lever (Yes, I'm pressing/holding the barrel back). Closing it is tight, but not prohibitively so.

10-01-2013, 12:44 AM	#17
Tony Min User Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 169 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts	That is what I was expecting with a new spring. I don't think the hole is oversized. There is no jiggle and the fit seems good. I am kind of stumped.

10-02-2013, 01:53 AM	#18
Tony Min User Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 169 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts	Nobody has ever run into this problem?

10-02-2013, 04:45 AM	#19
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Bending the sideplate "ear" out a bit creates tention against the takedown lever, once it starts rotating and locking itself into the frame. It is unusual to find a lever that is this loose once you have addressed all the issues you describe. The only thing that comes to mind is to try a different lever to see if that functions normally. Your original lever may have been buffed just past "spec" by a factory worker, thus making it always a loose fit.