Delusional Dealer?

nukem556 · 03-05-2011, 07:01 PM

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=218373350

This guy is claiming his 1900 is a Test Luger, despite its serial # of 8678, and clear "Germany" stamp....he says what REALLY counts is the takedown lever stamped on the right!

drbuster · 03-05-2011, 07:35 PM

True that the higher test luger range is somewhat controversial, the ONLY feature with this 1900 AE that resembles a test luger feature is the numbering on the right side of the take down lever. "Germany" marked frames imply commercial importation and not a militray test weapon. Also the "flaming bomb" proof is no real distinguishing feature as it was simply an inspector's proof seen in frame wells of many 1900 to 1902 lugers until the triangle in circle proof superceded it. If I were in the market for a legitimate test eagle luger, I would avoid this luger. Also the references to Datig's information is very antiquated and most of it has not stood the test of time.

nukem556 · 03-05-2011, 07:45 PM

no, i wasn't buying the story or the gun! my 1900 has that mark in the frame well also, that resembles the "flaming bomb"

Ron Wood · 03-05-2011, 08:07 PM

The takedown lever isn't even a good marker. After serial number 7100 the levers were marked on the left side flat until around serial number 7990. Above that number they can be marked on the right end or on the bottom. The Bannerman guns 7108 and 7149 are marked on the left flat.

policeluger · 03-05-2011, 09:01 PM

how long has this been listed.....a long time.

MFC · 03-05-2011, 11:37 PM

Dr.,
I thought the 'triangle in circle' is a Portuguese Military proof. Are you refering to another inspectors mark? One that comes to mind is a 'shield w/diagonal line'.

Edward Tinker · 03-05-2011, 11:51 PM

He has listed this for a very long time if it is the one I am thinking of (internet acting funny over here); and me and several others traded emails with him telling him he is incorrect.

Obviously, he thinks he is right.

This is where a small fee every time you list would deter folks from re-listing items that were toooooo expensive or not as claimed...

Ed

Hugo Borchardt · 03-06-2011, 08:51 AM

"...he actually went to germany and spoke to lugers grandchildren " to verify, and " this gun has the germany mark on it ..."

I think it is a decent piece in itself. Are those ideal grips on it? The ridiculous story insisting that it absolutely is a test piece kills the deal. I think he could have said the same things, prefacing with "this may be a test piece because...." Then drop the price around $1000 and he might sell it.

Clark

Ron Wood · 03-06-2011, 10:20 AM

The grips are home made and crudely checkered.

Edward Tinker · 03-06-2011, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

The grips are home made and crudely checkered.

Yes Georg made them at home during Oktober fest

drbuster · 03-06-2011, 12:03 PM

Mike C., the circle triangle indeed is a Portuguese proof mark. A slightly smaller version is found in the frame wells of most (if not all) 1902 lugers, later 1900 lugers and some carbines. It is just another proof.

MFC · 03-06-2011, 05:50 PM

Dr.,
Thanks. I didn't know that. Sooooo much to learn.

Ron Wood · 03-06-2011, 07:22 PM

I sent him a rather long email through Gunbroker explaining why his narrative was erroneous and borderline fraudulent. I doubt that he will react to it. He very well may believe he is 100% correct and will not be swayed.

drbuster · 03-06-2011, 09:26 PM

Hopefully he'll get the hint when no one buys!

nukem556 · 03-07-2011, 09:04 PM

It appears the seller has "re-evaluated" the description of this AE.....doubtless Mr. Woods' sage advice played a part....he's not coming a penny off the 4999.00 ticket, though!

tomaustin · 03-07-2011, 09:22 PM

..

rivieraranch · 03-08-2011, 09:38 PM

The listing is fundamentally dishonest; when confronted with information from a credible source that proved what he was asserting was incorrect, he continues to maintain to the contrary.

alanint · 03-08-2011, 10:06 PM

Doesn't Gunbroker have some governing body this could be reported to? A fraudulent add is not good for business!

Ben M. · 03-18-2011, 01:02 PM

Looks like all mention of a Test gun was deleted. His asking price is still high but that is his business. Maybe his wife has been pressuring him to sell off something and in so doing he can tell her it is on the auction site, but no one has the money to buy it.

cirelaw · 03-18-2011, 04:07 PM

Where did he find the grips. Are mine wrong?

03-05-2011, 07:01 PM	#1
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	Delusional Dealer? http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=218373350 This guy is claiming his 1900 is a Test Luger, despite its serial # of 8678, and clear "Germany" stamp....he says what REALLY counts is the takedown lever stamped on the right!

03-05-2011, 08:07 PM	#4
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	The takedown lever isn't even a good marker. After serial number 7100 the levers were marked on the left side flat until around serial number 7990. Above that number they can be marked on the right end or on the bottom. The Bannerman guns 7108 and 7149 are marked on the left flat. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

03-05-2011, 11:37 PM	#6
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Dr., I thought the 'triangle in circle' is a Portuguese Military proof. Are you refering to another inspectors mark? One that comes to mind is a 'shield w/diagonal line'. __________________ Mike C.

03-05-2011, 11:51 PM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	He has listed this for a very long time if it is the one I am thinking of (internet acting funny over here); and me and several others traded emails with him telling him he is incorrect. Obviously, he thinks he is right. This is where a small fee every time you list would deter folks from re-listing items that were toooooo expensive or not as claimed... Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

03-06-2011, 08:51 AM	#8
Hugo Borchardt User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 370 Thanks: 338 Thanked 131 Times in 47 Posts	"...he actually went to germany and spoke to lugers grandchildren " to verify, and " this gun has the germany mark on it ..." I think it is a decent piece in itself. Are those ideal grips on it? The ridiculous story insisting that it absolutely is a test piece kills the deal. I think he could have said the same things, prefacing with "this may be a test piece because...." Then drop the price around $1000 and he might sell it. Clark __________________ My militaria collection is dedicated to the memory of my Grandfather, Marine Gunnery Sergeant Dave Hill, Jr., wounded in action at The Assault of the Second Marine Division on Betio Island, Tarawa Atoll, 20-23 November, 1943. http://www.tarawa1943.com/pages/casualties%20tarawa.htm

03-05-2011, 07:35 PM	#2
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	True that the higher test luger range is somewhat controversial, the ONLY feature with this 1900 AE that resembles a test luger feature is the numbering on the right side of the take down lever. "Germany" marked frames imply commercial importation and not a militray test weapon. Also the "flaming bomb" proof is no real distinguishing feature as it was simply an inspector's proof seen in frame wells of many 1900 to 1902 lugers until the triangle in circle proof superceded it. If I were in the market for a legitimate test eagle luger, I would avoid this luger. Also the references to Datig's information is very antiquated and most of it has not stood the test of time.

03-05-2011, 07:45 PM	#3
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	no, i wasn't buying the story or the gun! my 1900 has that mark in the frame well also, that resembles the "flaming bomb"

03-05-2011, 09:01 PM	#5
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	how long has this been listed.....a long time.

03-06-2011, 10:20 AM	#9
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	The grips are home made and crudely checkered. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

03-06-2011, 12:03 PM	#11
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Mike C., the circle triangle indeed is a Portuguese proof mark. A slightly smaller version is found in the frame wells of most (if not all) 1902 lugers, later 1900 lugers and some carbines. It is just another proof.

03-06-2011, 05:50 PM	#12
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Dr., Thanks. I didn't know that. Sooooo much to learn. __________________ Mike C.

03-06-2011, 07:22 PM	#13
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	I sent him a rather long email through Gunbroker explaining why his narrative was erroneous and borderline fraudulent. I doubt that he will react to it. He very well may believe he is 100% correct and will not be swayed. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

03-06-2011, 09:26 PM	#14
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Hopefully he'll get the hint when no one buys!

03-07-2011, 09:04 PM	#15
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	It appears the seller has "re-evaluated" the description of this AE.....doubtless Mr. Woods' sage advice played a part....he's not coming a penny off the 4999.00 ticket, though!

03-07-2011, 09:22 PM	#16
tomaustin Lifer X5 Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: texas Posts: 708 Thanks: 87 Thanked 522 Times in 201 Posts	then he has the cornerstone of a "valuable" collection.. ..

03-08-2011, 09:38 PM	#17
rivieraranch User Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: South Florida Posts: 101 Thanks: 4 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	The listing is fundamentally dishonest; when confronted with information from a credible source that proved what he was asserting was incorrect, he continues to maintain to the contrary.

03-08-2011, 10:06 PM	#18
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Doesn't Gunbroker have some governing body this could be reported to? A fraudulent add is not good for business!

03-18-2011, 01:02 PM	#19
Ben M. User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Retired to Naples, FL. Posts: 476 Thanks: 84 Thanked 117 Times in 79 Posts	Looks like all mention of a Test gun was deleted. His asking price is still high but that is his business. Maybe his wife has been pressuring him to sell off something and in so doing he can tell her it is on the auction site, but no one has the money to buy it.

03-18-2011, 04:07 PM	#20
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Where did he find the grips. Are mine wrong? Attached Thumbnails