DDR Lugers

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I am interested in aquiring an East German arsenal rework luger with those cheesy brown plastic bullseye grips and shoddy dip bluing, mix-matched numbers, and all. I want it for two reasons: 1) I collect communist block firearms - E.German rework Third Reich weapons are historically interesting to some of us; and 2)I love Lugers.


I have an all matching 41 byf in 90+ w/orig. bakelite grips and fxo mags w/orig holster. I would hate to break a numbered part and have its value diminished. A DDR luger would not present this same risk.


Questions: For a DDR luger in excellent working condition -what price range am I looking at?


Lugers were numbered for a reason - fit affects function - are mismatched lugers that much more prone to malfunction?


Any responses appreciated. mm

Here in North Alabama they are going about $450 depending on if its a commercial or S42, latter being higher.


Roadkill

[mm]

Grady,


I am looking for one that has strong rifling and one that is in 9mm Luger (not 30). How much more are the s/42s going for? Around $500? mm

MM, I still have a couple of DDR mismatched reworks in stock with new barrels @$500 and one all matching with plenty of interesting proofs @$600. Tom h

Several years ago Sarco was selling the DDR ones for around

$350. Last year, AIM had a bunch that they were unloading.

Prices started around $375. If you wanted a nice bore, an

extra $50. If you wanted matching #s, another $50. If you wanted wooden grips, another $50. So for around $550ish

you could get a half way nice Luger. They sold out fast on the upper end ones. The only problem I heard about them was this: They were imported by Century Arms. The guy doing the import mark stamping on the barrel was hitting the die way too hard. Many of the guns have bulged bbls. If you run across any of the AIM guns at shows be sure to check for this. AIM has long since sold out of their Lugers. So you will have to find one on the secondary market.


There are a lot of Luger with mixed numbers floating around. Most seem to function ok, unless they are beat to

h--l. You are wise not to fire your matching gun. Break a numbered part and the value tumbles.


I have 2 of the DDR lugers. Many people look down on them. I think that they are great. Where else can a working man get into a decent shooter for around $500? Many collecters seem to forget that when they started collecting, they were on a budget. Not everyone can afford the big buck guns. You buy what you can afford and upgrade as your circumstance

improves. Would you really want to learn to to dis-assemble a Luger using a pristine example? Buy the best you can afford and go from there.


I think the DDR Lugers have a wonderful history and hope that more are imported in the near future. I would also like to see more DDR types of weapons imported. The reworked Kar-98ks and their SKSs come to mind.


Please let us know how you make out.

Perhaps someone like Tom Heller can provide more insight into this area but I have often seen a lot of incorrect information about these DDR Lugers. Most of the true DDR re-works that I'm am aware of started being imported into the US in the later 1980's (they were released in then W-Germany in the early/mid 1980's). These pistols that I inspected (maybe a total of 50-75) had East German proofs in addition to non-scrubbed earlier proofs, were generarally matching, often (if pre mid-37) had the usual parts strawed and had excellent (really factory) quality re-finishes. Often the mag had been arsenal re-numbered to match, sometimse the East German made mags were used, most all had the Bulls-Eye grips (nothing cheesey about these IMO) and excellent bores, often East German replaced barrels....and many other fine point characteristics...the point here is Most of the East German re-work is First Class and my understanding is there were both VOPO used Lugers and DDR Military used Lugers each with slight nuanances in markings.


The other great lot from Europe is more recent, early to mid 1990's thousands of Lugers that reportly originated from the former USSR and were sold thru Germany (and are so import marked) were released into the US, these are still around at the imported/distributer level. These Lugers were captured by the Soviets during the course and close of WWII and eventually reworked and stored for potential use by Soviet supported causes (ie Vietnam!). These Lugers almost all show some pitting here and there under the re-work blue and often have numbers (mismatched?) electro-penned scratched out and not re-stamped, some made it thru all matching (except I doubt any grips or mags are included with this definition) many have beefy Russian vertical slotted composition grips and many are found bearing the mysterious "X" marking. IMO, these too are interesting, Historic Lugers, but not up to par with the East German ones in terms of quality of re-work. While I say historic, I do not think it is a sin to shoot them....I do.


As for replaced parts tending to work as well due to tolerences as factory originals, I say this; All parts have to meet a tolerance range to fit well and work. If the replacement (used) parts were correctly gauged and selected and or fitted, In theory they could be BETTER than the factory part. It all depends on which ones had the most care in fitting and selected.

[John Sabato]

[Marvin]

BCC,


I agree with John S., that was a good post!


Early last year I had the oppportunity to buy one of the East German reworked Lugers. it is an all matching "K" Date with the only part replaced was the barrel, and it was reserialed to the frame. The rework was an excellent job with a nice reblue. The only thing is that the E. Germans blued the former strawed parts. This one has the E. German proofs and the "sunburst" stamped on the frame. The grips are the checkered, bullseye type and look good on the pistol. I had thought about having the pistol put back to original condition, but then thought that this is a variation and should be left alone. It is in approx. 97-98% condition and looks great. I think I paid about $700 for this pistol which was a little high, but it was a "K" date and all matching, including the renumbered magazine.


I feel that this "variation" may improve in value more than the regular imports due to the rework being done by a Government Agency. I don't know if this will happen, but I do enjoy the pistol. Just think about the history behind it; pre-war manufacture, used by German troops, captured by the Russians, reworked by E. Germany, and finally making it's was to the US and now in my collection.


Marvin

I too think they will go up in value, and for the reasons Marvin stated. Being a gov't rework, that is far different than a "Ed T" rework in my shop.


Ed T

If it is any consulation, I think you did well on the price for that Luger and I think you made the right decision to leave it in it's present form. The pistol is all original in relation to it's official use (last one at least). After all I think everyone would agree that a "deathshead" under lazy S marked Luger did not have this mark applied at the factory, however I've never known this non-factory alteration to hurt their value!

Sorry I didn't answer last night, went to bed. You would probably be better off getting one for someone here than what I might find in a pawnshop and not know what shape its in. Tom, I might be getting a few extra $ in the near future and be contacting you.


roadkill

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Thanks to all of you who responded. As usual, your insights into this subject are informative and will be very useful in adding this variation to my collection. mm

all great posts


I am also looking for a great e. german luger and yes they have been around, I was at sarco when they had the mausers K-98's, they were so bad, G-43s & Stg 44 parts kits were better, but they were properly proofed and mismatched. recently purchased a E german pp recommend you get one now! tom heller has several lugers and I am interested but it will have to wait, tom has quality stuff good luck


I am also looking for e german p-38's, SKS either E. German proofed or manufactured

Is that type of rework called a Tinkers Damn?

maybe a damn DDR?

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Congratulations on your E.German PP. Did you buy it from the Dealers Warehouse in Modesto Calif.? They have them for about $400 (ad in Shotgun News). Have you seen E.German SKSs advertised anywhere? I am not aware of them being available in the US. I read awhile back that shortly after German reunification, the Bundes Republic sent many DDR AKMs, AKs and SKSs to Turkey. mm

mm and all collectors


no I bought the PP from Tom Heller, 99% with brand new holster. The mags are walther manufactured as you can see were they ground out the walther logo and caliber designation. these are new never fired, there are two types of E.german PP's the original walther parts and armours kits were centralized in suhl and reassmbled with new remanufactured parts these gun are marked ac with the typical 1001 designation, not found on lugers, p-38's rebuilt and reassembled. then there are the E.german manufactured on most of the original machinary. They do not have the ac markings, these are of e.german manufacture, I should note that the ac is different in size, from the 1945 code, it is true that P-38's were also manufactured in the 50's at suhl. The sks's there are two variations at this time 1) e.german imported, meaning made in other eastern block countries 2) e.german manufactured as reported have blonde laminated stocks with the typical sling hole behind the wrist as K-98's these are E.german proofed, while the other variations are russian and polish? these have the standard stock with cleaning kit in stock and are only e.german proof with russian markings, some of these guns are again turning up mixed in with these other sks coming in, there may be other variations only time will tell. do not worry about folks who turn there noses up on e.german stuff,

The East German Makarovs bring more than the Russian or other countries because of the quality. I've never had an Eastern block firearm that didn't work the first time. And I had several uncomfortable moments a long time ago in rice paddies because of eastern bloc weapons. They aren't pretty but definitely useful.


Roadkill

[Marvin]

Roadkill,


Iagree with about the Eastern Block weapons. Matter of fact, I prefered the AK to our M-16 in 1972. I had a mint, Russian made AK and it never failed to fire. Sure did spook the VC when they found out an American was firing with one of thier weapons and not a 16. The sound of the two are very distinct.


Marvin

[John Sabato]

What about those friendlies that might shoot at the SOUND of an enemy weapon? IMHO, it appears you could easily have been the target of both sides! Glad you made it back Marvin!


-regards, John