Custom Target Lugers

Jasta2 · 10-03-2010, 07:52 AM

Good Morning,

I am seriously looking at getting a 'target shooting' Luger. Though not thought off a a collector Luger, maybe to some it might be a 'sub set' like some collect chromed/nickled Lugers. Just intrested in info of target built Lugers and maybe pictures of them. I read someone won a world championship with a custom Luger many years back. There is one listed on the Simpsons Ltd sight now. I thing I just might buy that one.
Thanks,Bill

sheepherder · 10-03-2010, 08:06 AM

Interesting...a parts Luger with a S&W K or N frame revolver rear sight...I've installed these on 45 autos; they are light and easily adjusted...Right side view seems to show that the rear sight is not all that well installed...[pic below]...Rather than being inlet, it is screwed flat on the rear toggle...The barrel on this is a brand unknown to me; twist is not stated...Kinda like a Vollquartsen...No overtravel stop on trigger...Doesn't say what brand magazine, but looks like one I bought which doesn't fit very well...Sideplate doesn't seem to have liked the blueing solution...Grips are interesting...

Price is certainly right...

An entry-level target conversion?

Edit: A close-up of the top view of rear sight is revealing...The sight appears to be mounted crooked...and the blueing, at least in this area, appears mottled...

I dunno, Bill...I'm pretty sure there are several members here who could build you a better target Luger...

sheepherder · 10-03-2010, 10:14 AM

Bill, I'm assuming that you posted this *before* you bought it to get members opinions on it...and I've got opinions...

I'm not knocking this Luger down as far as target shooting is concerned - it most likely is pretty accurate. If you're a shooter who is only concerned with tight grouping then this should satisfy you.

I'm kind of anal about how things look...This looks kind of sloppily put together, at least the rear sight mounting. I wouldn't have chosen the S&W sight because to get the proper height adjustment, S&W made the spring tang long...but this one has been drastically shortened...I would have chosen a Bo-Mar or even a Colt-Eliason or Accro [both used on the Gold Cup] rear sight for it. Bo-Mar is out of business, but the sights crop up on eBay or GB now & then. I haven't made a study of it, but I've seen the sights mounted in a 'shoe' which was then brazed to the rear toggle, after it had been suitably milled to accept it.

(Edit: Here's a thread with a S&W K-frame rear sight mounted in a 'shoe' by Hugh for a target Luger - http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=16879 - Towards the bottom)

I would also make the front sight adjustable, by means of a dovetailed slot and several blades of different heights.

I would have made it 7.65mm Luger instead of 9mm. You can get a flatter trajectory with the lighter bullet.

I'd drill & tap the trigger for overtravel adjustment.

I'm not a gunsmith, just a hacker. I'm not trying to drum up business; I have more projects going now than I can find time for. But I have made some target conversions. Here's one I made years ago which shoots much better than I can...[pic below]...

sheepherder · 10-03-2010, 10:25 AM

I took a closer look at the front sight on this Dewey barrel and decided I like it, for a target pistol. It's removable, and fits in a slot, not a dovetail. It could be changed quickly if required. And it would be much easier to make.

For the price, it may be a good deal. You would at least have the basics and could work on the rest...

Jasta2 · 10-03-2010, 08:25 PM

No, I have not yet bought this Luger and thanks for your comments on it. There is much more that goes into a target conversion than I thought of.
Bill

sheepherder · 10-03-2010, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasta2

No, I have not yet bought this Luger and thanks for your comments on it. There is much more that goes into a target conversion than I thought of.
Bill

Did you look at the pics of the one Hugh worked on??? That one is pretty well thought out...

Something like this with a long heavy barrel will take some time to match up with a suitable load/bullet that will cycle the action...Experimentation & replacement with various weight springs will likely be required...

Finding the most accurate load will take some time...Do you handload???

It can be a lot of fun...Shooting 5" groups while varying powder loads, and suddenly finding yourself shooting 2" groups with one specific load is very satisfying...

Jasta2 · 10-04-2010, 11:56 AM

I have not done hand loading since my USCG days in California when I competed in the 3-gun bullseye matches. That was 20 years back and to my displeasure I had to 'Turn In' my Colt Gold Cup National Match .45 ( the only one) back to the Chief Gunner's Mate when I retired form the Guand. Finding no local matches anywhere near our new home in New Hampshire, I sold my reloading gear and my Hi Standard Victor.22. Another reget in life, that .22 Victor was the best shooting pistol I've ever shot. It could shoot far better groups than I could make it do. I have not the skill or equipment to build my own target Luger, but wish I could!! So I'll just keep looking around.
Tks,Bill

sheepherder · 10-09-2010, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick W.

If you want a 30, go buy a take off 30-06 barrel(usually 10 twist)...

Interesting...Is that the O3A3 or the Garand??? I don't have much in the way of rifle specs to look up barrel twists...I do have an M1919A1 barrel in the basement somewhere...

I like tight twists; makes for better gyroscopic action...

John Sabato · 10-12-2010, 10:29 AM

Here an example of a "target" Luger by a master German gunsmith (who is also a member of this forum)...

Here is his website: It is in German, but he does have a English translation button on most pages.

http://www.waffen-werle.de/

Jasta2 · 10-12-2010, 11:08 AM

WOW!!That is the most highly modified Luger I've ever seen!! Reminds me of the so called "Race Guns', very highly modified 1911s used in todays pratical and speed matches. Bet that cost quite a penny, or is that Mark? OOps or EURO?

saab-bob · 10-12-2010, 12:50 PM

John
Thanks for the great website.
I love the luger rifles.
I notice some of his target lugers use the 30 Mauser cartridge,very interesting.
This gentleman is truly a "old world craftsman"
Bob

Michael Zeleny · 10-12-2010, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasta2

I read someone won a world championship with a custom Luger many years back.

As discussed here, Heinrich Keller of Frauenfeld, Switzerland, aged 40, represented his country with a specially constructed 170mm-barreled 1906/29 7.65mm Luger in his first international event, the 1949 ISSF competition in Buenos Aires. As shown above, his gun, albeit arsenal-built with a longer, 170mm barrel, otherwise differs little from a standard Swiss 1929 military issue Luger. It should be noted that all Swiss Lugers received trigger tuning with the aid of a special tool. Such tools can still be found in Swiss gun auctions.

The original target of Keller’s fourth pass in the ISSF championship shows a perfect score of 100. It caused a sensation during that event, for no other shooter had managed such a result thus far. His overall performance in competition resulted in 10-shot targets that scored 96, 88, 95, 100, 88, and 92 points, adding up to the same 559 points that he had scored in preliminary training, achieving in each instance the best result of any shooter. Keller’s skill earned his 1949 ISSF title of World Champion in the 25m center-fire pistol event. In summary, not much work is needed to compete in a bullseye event with a Luger. The shooter, not the gun, will be the limiting factor.

Jasta2 · 10-12-2010, 10:30 PM

Michael,
Thank you! That was the story I was looking for. At this forum, ask and you will receive!!
Bill

lfid · 10-13-2010, 01:14 AM

those interested in target lugers should enjoy
http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com/
archived lugers
very early lugers
1904 Schiessen des Preises
enjoy
thanks !!! to Phoenix Inv Arms for this archive
Bill

sheepherder · 10-13-2010, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lfid

those interested in target lugers should enjoy
http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com/
archived lugers
very early lugers
1904 Schiessen des Preises
enjoy
thanks !!! to Phoenix Inv Arms for this archive
Bill

A macabre piece of work...

http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com...esentation.htm

Solid square butt; set-back toggle/receiver; cantilevered rear sight...and single shot...

lfid · 10-13-2010, 12:22 PM

Apparently this 1904 item was a shooting prize

must have been significant !!! shooting event in 1904

Bill

10-03-2010, 07:52 AM	#1
Jasta2 User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lakeland, Fl. Posts: 514 Thanks: 349 Thanked 101 Times in 52 Posts	Custom Target Lugers Good Morning, I am seriously looking at getting a 'target shooting' Luger. Though not thought off a a collector Luger, maybe to some it might be a 'sub set' like some collect chromed/nickled Lugers. Just intrested in info of target built Lugers and maybe pictures of them. I read someone won a world championship with a custom Luger many years back. There is one listed on the Simpsons Ltd sight now. I thing I just might buy that one. Thanks,Bill

10-03-2010, 08:06 AM	#2
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	Interesting...a parts Luger with a S&W K or N frame revolver rear sight...I've installed these on 45 autos; they are light and easily adjusted...Right side view seems to show that the rear sight is not all that well installed...[pic below]...Rather than being inlet, it is screwed flat on the rear toggle...The barrel on this is a brand unknown to me; twist is not stated...Kinda like a Vollquartsen...No overtravel stop on trigger...Doesn't say what brand magazine, but looks like one I bought which doesn't fit very well...Sideplate doesn't seem to have liked the blueing solution...Grips are interesting... Price is certainly right... An entry-level target conversion? Edit: A close-up of the top view of rear sight is revealing...The sight appears to be mounted crooked...and the blueing, at least in this area, appears mottled... I dunno, Bill...I'm pretty sure there are several members here who could build you a better target Luger... Attached Thumbnails __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

10-03-2010, 10:14 AM	#3
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	Bill, I'm assuming that you posted this before you bought it to get members opinions on it...and I've got opinions... I'm not knocking this Luger down as far as target shooting is concerned - it most likely is pretty accurate. If you're a shooter who is only concerned with tight grouping then this should satisfy you. I'm kind of anal about how things look...This looks kind of sloppily put together, at least the rear sight mounting. I wouldn't have chosen the S&W sight because to get the proper height adjustment, S&W made the spring tang long...but this one has been drastically shortened...I would have chosen a Bo-Mar or even a Colt-Eliason or Accro [both used on the Gold Cup] rear sight for it. Bo-Mar is out of business, but the sights crop up on eBay or GB now & then. I haven't made a study of it, but I've seen the sights mounted in a 'shoe' which was then brazed to the rear toggle, after it had been suitably milled to accept it. (Edit: Here's a thread with a S&W K-frame rear sight mounted in a 'shoe' by Hugh for a target Luger - http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=16879 - Towards the bottom) I would also make the front sight adjustable, by means of a dovetailed slot and several blades of different heights. I would have made it 7.65mm Luger instead of 9mm. You can get a flatter trajectory with the lighter bullet. I'd drill & tap the trigger for overtravel adjustment. I'm not a gunsmith, just a hacker. I'm not trying to drum up business; I have more projects going now than I can find time for. But I have made some target conversions. Here's one I made years ago which shoots much better than I can...[pic below]... Attached Thumbnails __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

10-03-2010, 10:25 AM	#4
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	I took a closer look at the front sight on this Dewey barrel and decided I like it, for a target pistol. It's removable, and fits in a slot, not a dovetail. It could be changed quickly if required. And it would be much easier to make. For the price, it may be a good deal. You would at least have the basics and could work on the rest... Attached Images __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

10-12-2010, 10:29 AM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Here an example of a "target" Luger by a master German gunsmith (who is also a member of this forum)... Here is his website: It is in German, but he does have a English translation button on most pages. http://www.waffen-werle.de/ __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-03-2010, 08:25 PM	#5
Jasta2 User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lakeland, Fl. Posts: 514 Thanks: 349 Thanked 101 Times in 52 Posts	No, I have not yet bought this Luger and thanks for your comments on it. There is much more that goes into a target conversion than I thought of. Bill

10-04-2010, 11:56 AM	#7
Jasta2 User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lakeland, Fl. Posts: 514 Thanks: 349 Thanked 101 Times in 52 Posts	I have not done hand loading since my USCG days in California when I competed in the 3-gun bullseye matches. That was 20 years back and to my displeasure I had to 'Turn In' my Colt Gold Cup National Match .45 ( the only one) back to the Chief Gunner's Mate when I retired form the Guand. Finding no local matches anywhere near our new home in New Hampshire, I sold my reloading gear and my Hi Standard Victor.22. Another reget in life, that .22 Victor was the best shooting pistol I've ever shot. It could shoot far better groups than I could make it do. I have not the skill or equipment to build my own target Luger, but wish I could!! So I'll just keep looking around. Tks,Bill

10-12-2010, 11:08 AM	#10
Jasta2 User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lakeland, Fl. Posts: 514 Thanks: 349 Thanked 101 Times in 52 Posts	WOW!!That is the most highly modified Luger I've ever seen!! Reminds me of the so called "Race Guns', very highly modified 1911s used in todays pratical and speed matches. Bet that cost quite a penny, or is that Mark? OOps or EURO?

10-12-2010, 12:50 PM	#11
saab-bob User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 459 Thanks: 774 Thanked 143 Times in 87 Posts	John Thanks for the great website. I love the luger rifles. I notice some of his target lugers use the 30 Mauser cartridge,very interesting. This gentleman is truly a "old world craftsman" Bob __________________ "I think,therefore I own guns"

10-12-2010, 10:30 PM	#13
Jasta2 User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lakeland, Fl. Posts: 514 Thanks: 349 Thanked 101 Times in 52 Posts	Michael, Thank you! That was the story I was looking for. At this forum, ask and you will receive!! Bill

10-13-2010, 01:14 AM	#14
lfid Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wichita, KS USA Posts: 453 Thanks: 573 Thanked 96 Times in 53 Posts	those interested in target lugers should enjoy http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com/ archived lugers very early lugers 1904 Schiessen des Preises enjoy thanks !!! to Phoenix Inv Arms for this archive Bill

10-13-2010, 12:22 PM	#16
lfid Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wichita, KS USA Posts: 453 Thanks: 573 Thanked 96 Times in 53 Posts	Apparently this 1904 item was a shooting prize must have been significant !!! shooting event in 1904 Bill