A VoPo display

Vlim · 10-24-2008, 09:09 AM

I finally managed to get a 1950s P08 holster, so the VoPo rig is pretty much complete now.

For the occassion, the P08 is reunited with it's VoPo grips again.

Visible on the photo are:

DDR refurbished 1937 S/42 with Crown/N proofed barrel.
DDR 1950s Police holster, stamped 'VEB 6'.
DDR Loading tool (ribbed thumb grip).
DDR 2/1001 Extruded magazine with pot metal bottom, numbered to the gun.
DDR manuals including:
-Waffen und Gelaendekunde, published by the MdI in 1957.
-Die Pistolen der Polizei, MdI, 1950.
-Munition der Deutschen Volkspolizei, MdI, 1950.
-Kleine Waffenkunde, MdI, 1966. Property of Obermeister der Volkspolizei Helmut Albrecht.
-Geschichte der Deutschen Volkspolizei 1945-1961, MdI, 1979.

The police contract of Klaus Schonert, Obermeister der Deutschen Volkspolizei of the VP-Amt in Leipzig. His contract was renewed in 1983 for a period of 7 years.

Mauser720 · 10-24-2008, 09:25 AM

Gerben -

What a wonderful grouping you have managed to assemble. Thank you so much for sharing this photograph and information.

Mauser720 - Ron

the gunman · 10-24-2008, 10:09 AM

Very Very nice display Gerben

Schupo · 10-24-2008, 10:57 AM

Gerben,

A very nice display. Could you post some closeups of the hard shell holster? I have a similar unmarked one but I would like to see where the markings are and other details.

Thanks.

Vlim · 10-24-2008, 11:17 AM

Sorry for the quality,

Camera batteries were running low so I had to hurry

There are no visible markings on the outside front or back of the holster.
You normally find stamped markings on the inside of the flap, at the left bottom of the flap.

This marking is pretty messed up, a shakey double stamp. Some are actually pretty sharp.

Scans of the front and back:

mauro · 10-24-2008, 11:35 AM

Hi Gerben,
Really nice display!
Well done...

Attached the pictures of mine...

Mauro

Edward Tinker · 10-24-2008, 02:44 PM

Very nice, a complete rig like this is nice. If I remember

I will include mine this weekend.

Ed

Schupo · 10-24-2008, 04:45 PM

Excellent! Thanks to both of you for posting your VEB marked hardshells. Just the information that I was looking for.

A.Mifsin · 10-25-2008, 01:24 AM

Thank you for sharing Gerben, can you please give us more information on these holster, like who maked them. Are they hard to find?
Thanks

Alf

Vlim · 10-25-2008, 06:09 AM

Hi Alf,

Little is known about these holsters at the moment. After 1945 the Eastern Part of Germany was being prepped by the Russians to be formed into what later came to be known as the DDR. A challenge that was faced by the allied victors of WW2 was to get the internal German public services up and running again, in order to restore some stability there.

In the east they strived to create entirely new police forces, while the western part (under US, British and French control) took a different path. Many western policemen were simply reappointed pre-1945 policemen in the West.

The DDR forerunners decided to appoint former communist prisoners, resistance men and political figures as police officers, and this meant that they had to be equipped and armed. Initially, early after 1945, they reused WW2 equipment, uniforms and gear that was available, but at a certain stage the choice was made to have new equipment made. These holsters were most likely produced during that 1950s era. Many of them were unissued, so it appears that these holsters were caught somewhere inbetween a change of guidelines/policies.

We know that the allies (Russia, UK, USA, France) agreed to dismantle the German war machine and an agreement was made to supply the German security forces with non-German made equipment. This agreement was also the reason why France pulled out of Oberndorf and teminated the Mauser company. It is also the reason why the refurbishing programs of the P08 and trials with newly produced P08 pistols was halted by the East-Germans. They slowly moved towards using Eastern-Block guns and equipment and large quantities of WW2 guns, which had been in used with the Volkspolizei and the armed worker groups that were the forerunnes of the NVA (the DDR army), were put in storage.

The only pistols that seem to have evaded this phasing-out of German guns were actually the P08 and the Walther PP/K. The Walther became the party officials pet gun and the P08 was still in use as late as in 1966, but rather than holster it in the hardshell holsters shown above, they were mostly carried in the P38 style holsters.

VEB 6 is an abbreviation and stands for 'Volkseigener Betrieb 6', or 'People's owned company nr. 6'. At the moment I have no idea who nr. 6 was or where they were located.

Other DDR abbreviations that are useful to remember are:
MdI (Ministerium des Innern, Ministry of Interior)
MfS (Ministerium fur Staatssicherheit, or 'Stasi', the state security ministry)

These hardshell holsters will appear on auction now and again. So they are not really rare, but not very common either.

A.Mifsin · 10-25-2008, 02:14 PM

Thank You Gerban for this usefull information. I hope that I will find one someday

Alf.

10-24-2008, 09:09 AM	#1
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,038 Thanks: 1,021 Thanked 3,896 Times in 1,189 Posts	A VoPo display I finally managed to get a 1950s P08 holster, so the VoPo rig is pretty much complete now. For the occassion, the P08 is reunited with it's VoPo grips again. Visible on the photo are: DDR refurbished 1937 S/42 with Crown/N proofed barrel. DDR 1950s Police holster, stamped 'VEB 6'. DDR Loading tool (ribbed thumb grip). DDR 2/1001 Extruded magazine with pot metal bottom, numbered to the gun. DDR manuals including: -Waffen und Gelaendekunde, published by the MdI in 1957. -Die Pistolen der Polizei, MdI, 1950. -Munition der Deutschen Volkspolizei, MdI, 1950. -Kleine Waffenkunde, MdI, 1966. Property of Obermeister der Volkspolizei Helmut Albrecht. -Geschichte der Deutschen Volkspolizei 1945-1961, MdI, 1979. The police contract of Klaus Schonert, Obermeister der Deutschen Volkspolizei of the VP-Amt in Leipzig. His contract was renewed in 1983 for a period of 7 years.

10-24-2008, 09:25 AM	#2
Mauser720 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 535 Thanks: 18 Thanked 49 Times in 33 Posts	Gerben - What a wonderful grouping you have managed to assemble. Thank you so much for sharing this photograph and information. Mauser720 - Ron __________________ Mauser720 - Ron "Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it."

10-24-2008, 10:57 AM	#4
Schupo User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Kansas City Metro Posts: 206 Thanks: 1 Thanked 102 Times in 47 Posts	Gerben, A very nice display. Could you post some closeups of the hard shell holster? I have a similar unmarked one but I would like to see where the markings are and other details. Thanks. __________________ "You can't please everyone, so you have got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson

10-24-2008, 11:35 AM	#6
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Hi Gerben, Really nice display! Well done... Attached the pictures of mine... Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

10-24-2008, 02:44 PM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,912 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	Very nice, a complete rig like this is nice. If I remember I will include mine this weekend. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-24-2008, 10:09 AM	#3
the gunman User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Leland NC 28451 Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	Very Very nice display Gerben

10-24-2008, 11:17 AM	#5
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,038 Thanks: 1,021 Thanked 3,896 Times in 1,189 Posts	Sorry for the quality, Camera batteries were running low so I had to hurry There are no visible markings on the outside front or back of the holster. You normally find stamped markings on the inside of the flap, at the left bottom of the flap. This marking is pretty messed up, a shakey double stamp. Some are actually pretty sharp. Scans of the front and back:

10-24-2008, 04:45 PM	#8
Schupo User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Kansas City Metro Posts: 206 Thanks: 1 Thanked 102 Times in 47 Posts	Excellent! Thanks to both of you for posting your VEB marked hardshells. Just the information that I was looking for. __________________ "You can't please everyone, so you have got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson

10-25-2008, 01:24 AM	#9
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	Thank you for sharing Gerben, can you please give us more information on these holster, like who maked them. Are they hard to find? Thanks Alf __________________ I prefer a Luger

10-25-2008, 06:09 AM	#10
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,038 Thanks: 1,021 Thanked 3,896 Times in 1,189 Posts	Hi Alf, Little is known about these holsters at the moment. After 1945 the Eastern Part of Germany was being prepped by the Russians to be formed into what later came to be known as the DDR. A challenge that was faced by the allied victors of WW2 was to get the internal German public services up and running again, in order to restore some stability there. In the east they strived to create entirely new police forces, while the western part (under US, British and French control) took a different path. Many western policemen were simply reappointed pre-1945 policemen in the West. The DDR forerunners decided to appoint former communist prisoners, resistance men and political figures as police officers, and this meant that they had to be equipped and armed. Initially, early after 1945, they reused WW2 equipment, uniforms and gear that was available, but at a certain stage the choice was made to have new equipment made. These holsters were most likely produced during that 1950s era. Many of them were unissued, so it appears that these holsters were caught somewhere inbetween a change of guidelines/policies. We know that the allies (Russia, UK, USA, France) agreed to dismantle the German war machine and an agreement was made to supply the German security forces with non-German made equipment. This agreement was also the reason why France pulled out of Oberndorf and teminated the Mauser company. It is also the reason why the refurbishing programs of the P08 and trials with newly produced P08 pistols was halted by the East-Germans. They slowly moved towards using Eastern-Block guns and equipment and large quantities of WW2 guns, which had been in used with the Volkspolizei and the armed worker groups that were the forerunnes of the NVA (the DDR army), were put in storage. The only pistols that seem to have evaded this phasing-out of German guns were actually the P08 and the Walther PP/K. The Walther became the party officials pet gun and the P08 was still in use as late as in 1966, but rather than holster it in the hardshell holsters shown above, they were mostly carried in the P38 style holsters. VEB 6 is an abbreviation and stands for 'Volkseigener Betrieb 6', or 'People's owned company nr. 6'. At the moment I have no idea who nr. 6 was or where they were located. Other DDR abbreviations that are useful to remember are: MdI (Ministerium des Innern, Ministry of Interior) MfS (Ministerium fur Staatssicherheit, or 'Stasi', the state security ministry) These hardshell holsters will appear on auction now and again. So they are not really rare, but not very common either.

10-25-2008, 02:14 PM	#11
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	Thank You Gerban for this usefull information. I hope that I will find one someday Alf. __________________ I prefer a Luger