What should I know about a 06/29..?

some_finn · 11-22-2005, 04:19 AM

Before buying one, that is.

I thought about posting this in the new collectors section but this is pretty specific so maybe it's ok to post here.

I kind of accidentally ran into an interesting Swiss 06/29, and as I'm looking into buying a "collector's grade" 7.65 Parabellum I got interested.

According to the seller it's in very good condition and all matching, and comes with a holster. The price is very tempting, but there are certain factors that might also explain that.

So the question is, what should I check about the gun to make sure it really is a truly collectible one? One problem is that it's in a different country (we're both in Europe) so I can't get my paws on it before buying. I asked for good pictures of it and will post them here if and when I get them.

Are there some kind of non-collectible "editions" of the 06/29 around that might be confused for the really collectible ones? Are as many parts numbered as in the German guns? How can I tell if the finish is original? If it's a privatized gun and has been overhauled and maybe even refinished when released by the Swiss military, does it make it much less collectible? Etc, etc...

Many thanks in advance for your kind advice!

Pete Ebbink · 11-26-2005, 12:35 PM

Hello Simo,

Welcome to the Luger Forum and sorry for the delay in replying. You ask some very good questions and I will try to reply. I am hoping our other, more experienced Swiss collectors will help you as well...

Since you are interested in collector-grade Swiss lugers, I would suggest you FIRST buy the following book. It is probably available for less money in Europe, but here is a link to a USA seller so you will see the book and its description. It is written in both Italian and English :

http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...products_id=37

Regarding your questions :

1. You might also want to look over this USA seller's offerings of Swiss lugers and you will see many original finished Swiss M1929 lugers. There are two (2) pages of Swiss lugers for sale :

http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...products_id=37

2. Is the Swiss M1929 luger you are considering red, brown, or black plastic construction of the grip panels and magazine bottom ? Red is the more rare and desirable by USA collectors...as the red plastic was more brittle and more prone to break and be replaced with brown or black plastic.

3. There is a "proper" range of serial numbers for the various colors to appear on these Swiss lugers. Can you tell us the serial number of the luger you are considering and we can tell you what color plastic is proper ? Also, when you look inside the front frame well (where the take-down lever runs through) you will see a number stamping that tells you the month and year the luger was made. For example "6.40" will indicate a luger made in June 1940.

4. For each of the red, brown, and black M1929 lugers issued to the military, there was a much smaller number of the same lugers made for civilian sales. These will have a "P" on top of the rear toggle just above the serial number and a "P" prefix to the serial number on the left side of the receiver/frame on the receiver rail. In the USA (and probably Europe), these civilian M1929 lugers are more collectible since their total numbers made are much lower than the military lugers.

5. From looking at a M1929 Swiss luger from the exterior, you will only see three (3) full serial number; on the top of the rear toggle link, along the circumference of the barrel shoulder ring, and on the left side of the receiver/frame on the receiver rail. The last two or sometimes three digits of the full serial number will appear on the internal surfaces of the following parts : trigger side plate, bottom of barrel lug, and sometimes on other small parts (I have not seen consistency of number stampings on the internal small parts). The plastic grip plates and the plastic magazine bottom are never serial stamped, though.

6. Your last question about the value or value decrease of a Bern arsenal refinish is a tough one to reply. In the USA, it is always nicer to find a luger that is original finish, but Bern reworks are still highly collectible and usually do not reduce value by much. I am not sure how this is viewed in Europe. Many Swiss lugers in the USA are reworks.

7. On a M1929 Bern and if the gun is original finish, you will see a bit of a "halo" or areas of white metal where the inspector stamping occurs along the left side frame rail, just adjacent to the full serial number stamping. The inspector's stamp, I believe, is stamped after the gun is finished. The Bernerprobe stamp on the barrel's shoulder ring should also show a "halo" if the gun is original finish. I believe the Bernerprobe is stamped after the gun is finished/blued as well. The small Swiss cross on the bottom side of the barrel will show a bit of "halo" too.

8. A luger than is nearly 60-70 years old, if original finish, should have some slight wear spots as well as having some rust, oxidation, and patina underneath the bluing finish. You should see this with a 10x loupe in good sunlight.

9. Finally, here in the USA we collectors try to insist on a 3-day, no questions asked return policy. If we receive the gun and do not like it, we return it to the seller in the same condition and then the seller will refund monies once he/she has the gun back at their home. One would loose shipping costs both ways, in such a return. Also when shipping the parcel back to the seller, require that a delivery signature is acquired so you can prove the gun actually was returned to the seller. If you do not get a signature when the gun is returned, the seller (if dishonest) would still have your money, have the gun back, but could claim he/she never received the gun and then will keep both the gun and your money...Do collectors in Europe do the same thing (i.e. 3-day inspection policy)...either between collectors or between a collector and a gun dealer ?

Pete Ebbink · 11-29-2005, 07:07 PM

Simo,

You might want to look at this web site for a nice M1929 Swiss "red" Bern luger and holster for sale for $ 2200 USD. The seller, Andrew Zink, lives in Switzerland.

If you go to the home page and select the "Vintage Arms" section, it is Item # 1271 on the page...scroll down the page to find it :

http://www.augustus.ch/

The price for such a luger and holster in the USA is very good. Not sure if the price in Europe is good or not...???

Pete Ebbink · 11-29-2005, 08:21 PM

Simo,

Here is another photo showing a pretty honest, authentic M1929 Swiss luger as well...this seller is in DE :

http://www.collector-arms.de/produkt_images/43000.jpg

some_finn · 11-30-2005, 01:38 AM

Thanks for the links and info, Pete.

The one I wrote about above, and hope to get more info on soon, is priced very low (almost suspiciously so) and of course is very tempting if it turns out to be as good as it's supposed to be.
Of course the low price might be explained by the fact that the seller may not be an expert on these guns either.
I'll post more info when I get it.

11-22-2005, 04:19 AM	#1
some_finn User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 20 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	What should I know about a 06/29..? Before buying one, that is. I thought about posting this in the new collectors section but this is pretty specific so maybe it's ok to post here. I kind of accidentally ran into an interesting Swiss 06/29, and as I'm looking into buying a "collector's grade" 7.65 Parabellum I got interested. According to the seller it's in very good condition and all matching, and comes with a holster. The price is very tempting, but there are certain factors that might also explain that. So the question is, what should I check about the gun to make sure it really is a truly collectible one? One problem is that it's in a different country (we're both in Europe) so I can't get my paws on it before buying. I asked for good pictures of it and will post them here if and when I get them. Are there some kind of non-collectible "editions" of the 06/29 around that might be confused for the really collectible ones? Are as many parts numbered as in the German guns? How can I tell if the finish is original? If it's a privatized gun and has been overhauled and maybe even refinished when released by the Swiss military, does it make it much less collectible? Etc, etc... Many thanks in advance for your kind advice!

11-26-2005, 12:35 PM	#2
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Simo, Welcome to the Luger Forum and sorry for the delay in replying. You ask some very good questions and I will try to reply. I am hoping our other, more experienced Swiss collectors will help you as well... Since you are interested in collector-grade Swiss lugers, I would suggest you FIRST buy the following book. It is probably available for less money in Europe, but here is a link to a USA seller so you will see the book and its description. It is written in both Italian and English : http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...products_id=37 Regarding your questions : 1. You might also want to look over this USA seller's offerings of Swiss lugers and you will see many original finished Swiss M1929 lugers. There are two (2) pages of Swiss lugers for sale : http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...products_id=37 2. Is the Swiss M1929 luger you are considering red, brown, or black plastic construction of the grip panels and magazine bottom ? Red is the more rare and desirable by USA collectors...as the red plastic was more brittle and more prone to break and be replaced with brown or black plastic. 3. There is a "proper" range of serial numbers for the various colors to appear on these Swiss lugers. Can you tell us the serial number of the luger you are considering and we can tell you what color plastic is proper ? Also, when you look inside the front frame well (where the take-down lever runs through) you will see a number stamping that tells you the month and year the luger was made. For example "6.40" will indicate a luger made in June 1940. 4. For each of the red, brown, and black M1929 lugers issued to the military, there was a much smaller number of the same lugers made for civilian sales. These will have a "P" on top of the rear toggle just above the serial number and a "P" prefix to the serial number on the left side of the receiver/frame on the receiver rail. In the USA (and probably Europe), these civilian M1929 lugers are more collectible since their total numbers made are much lower than the military lugers. 5. From looking at a M1929 Swiss luger from the exterior, you will only see three (3) full serial number; on the top of the rear toggle link, along the circumference of the barrel shoulder ring, and on the left side of the receiver/frame on the receiver rail. The last two or sometimes three digits of the full serial number will appear on the internal surfaces of the following parts : trigger side plate, bottom of barrel lug, and sometimes on other small parts (I have not seen consistency of number stampings on the internal small parts). The plastic grip plates and the plastic magazine bottom are never serial stamped, though. 6. Your last question about the value or value decrease of a Bern arsenal refinish is a tough one to reply. In the USA, it is always nicer to find a luger that is original finish, but Bern reworks are still highly collectible and usually do not reduce value by much. I am not sure how this is viewed in Europe. Many Swiss lugers in the USA are reworks. 7. On a M1929 Bern and if the gun is original finish, you will see a bit of a "halo" or areas of white metal where the inspector stamping occurs along the left side frame rail, just adjacent to the full serial number stamping. The inspector's stamp, I believe, is stamped after the gun is finished. The Bernerprobe stamp on the barrel's shoulder ring should also show a "halo" if the gun is original finish. I believe the Bernerprobe is stamped after the gun is finished/blued as well. The small Swiss cross on the bottom side of the barrel will show a bit of "halo" too. 8. A luger than is nearly 60-70 years old, if original finish, should have some slight wear spots as well as having some rust, oxidation, and patina underneath the bluing finish. You should see this with a 10x loupe in good sunlight. 9. Finally, here in the USA we collectors try to insist on a 3-day, no questions asked return policy. If we receive the gun and do not like it, we return it to the seller in the same condition and then the seller will refund monies once he/she has the gun back at their home. One would loose shipping costs both ways, in such a return. Also when shipping the parcel back to the seller, require that a delivery signature is acquired so you can prove the gun actually was returned to the seller. If you do not get a signature when the gun is returned, the seller (if dishonest) would still have your money, have the gun back, but could claim he/she never received the gun and then will keep both the gun and your money...Do collectors in Europe do the same thing (i.e. 3-day inspection policy)...either between collectors or between a collector and a gun dealer ?

11-29-2005, 07:07 PM	#3
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Simo, You might want to look at this web site for a nice M1929 Swiss "red" Bern luger and holster for sale for $ 2200 USD. The seller, Andrew Zink, lives in Switzerland. If you go to the home page and select the "Vintage Arms" section, it is Item # 1271 on the page...scroll down the page to find it : http://www.augustus.ch/ The price for such a luger and holster in the USA is very good. Not sure if the price in Europe is good or not...???

11-29-2005, 08:21 PM	#4
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Simo, Here is another photo showing a pretty honest, authentic M1929 Swiss luger as well...this seller is in DE : http://www.collector-arms.de/produkt_images/43000.jpg

11-30-2005, 01:38 AM	#5
some_finn User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 20 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the links and info, Pete. The one I wrote about above, and hope to get more info on soon, is priced very low (almost suspiciously so) and of course is very tempting if it turns out to be as good as it's supposed to be. Of course the low price might be explained by the fact that the seller may not be an expert on these guns either. I'll post more info when I get it.