Self Introduction

[1913 Erfurt]

I have just joined this great Forum. I am also a member of The Great War Forum. I am a military historian by hobby (BA History GMU Fairfax VA 1980)not by profession. I am a NRA member and former member North-South Skirmish Association (mid 1980's 7th Regt VA Vols. Potomac Region).I live in Manassas VA not far from the battlefield.My family on both sides originated from England and took part in the foundation of both the Mass. Bay and Plymouth Colonies. I have ancestors on both sides that took part in major engagemnts from the French and Indian War up to the U.N. War in Korea.
My interest in joining this forum stems from my possession of a 1913 Erfurt Luger that has been in my family since the Great War. My Great uncle removed it from a German officer during the Meuse-Argonne Offensive in Nov. 1918. He was in the 80th Div. The unit markings on my Luger indicate it was issued to the 138th Infantry, 42nd Division.
It is a wonderful pistol and is in what I can assume to be about 85%to 90% All #'s match and still has a great bore. Very accurate. The clip is not original, nor is the holster (repro). I am looking forward to joing in on various discussions. Regards, 1913 Erfurt, aka Charlie

[Russ]

Charlie
Welcome to the forum. Do you have photo's of your luger?

Russ

[Ron Smith]

Hey Russ, You would'nt have a spare hold-open spring laying around, that you can get rid of do you?
Ron

[George Anderson]

Charles(1913 Erfurt), I live in the Valley and collect unit marked Imperial Lugers. Would you render the grip strap marking of your pistol here on this forum? Please be sure to include punctuation, etc. Also please indicate if any letters are scriptic.

I have never heard of a unit marked division indicator. I would be interested to learn what you have.

[RockinWR]

Charles,
* Jan Still, Imperial Lugers..., Pg. 61 states "Erfurts dated 1913 are reported in the 575 to 2363b serial range. Estimated 1913 Erfurt production: 23,000 Lugers.
* This may be old news to you; but, I thought you'd like to know.
Respectfully,
Bob

[John Sabato]

Charlie, welcome to the Lugerforum.

If you need help with posting photos just ask.

BTW, I work in Herndon, and my better half works in Centerville... so I am closeby as well... be glad to meet you sometime.

[1913 Erfurt]

Regards to all and thanks for the many replies. Ron anyone that posts a picture of Egbert Souse from the "Bank Dick" is ok with me. Russ yes I do,and George will do my best if John can help me posting the pictures I just took. John, I work at UPS in Chantilly (28 almost years now)do the night shift, was a full time pkg car driver for 23 years so I'm close to bailing out.wanna enjoy the rest of my life without all the BS!!! John would be great to hook up w/you sometime, can show you the rest of my military firearms that have been handed down to me. Great bunch of folks here I see!!

George, regarding the unit markings on my 1913 Erfurt, I found the table from Gunsworld.com under German Guns P08 Luger Homepage.
My photos will show that it is stamped:

R.(nonscript)138 M. G. K. 321

Meaning: Infanterie Regiment 138th, Maschinengewehr Kommando 321 (# 0f Pistol or officer assigned to in the 42nd Division?)

Looking to hear from you all, regards, Charlie aka 1913 Erfurt

[George Anderson]

Charles, I think we would all still look forward to seeing your photos. You are right that the 138th Infantry regiment was assigned to the 42nd Division from 1916 through 1918. The American Expeditionary Forces rated the 42nd as a third class unit.

The 42nd was in the Baltic in 1916 until December 1917 when it was transferred to France. In 1918 it was engaged in the Battle of Lys as well as the battle of Champagne. At the end of the war it was in a position opposite American troops.

I believe that your grip strap marking should be read as, 138th Infantry Regiment, Machine Gun Company, weapon number 321.

In 1913 all weapons in a company were supposed to be property marked. This would include everything from P08s and Gew98s down to bayonets. I believe that the system was such that weapon number 322 in your case could have been a bayonet and 320 could have been a heavy machine gun.

I have often wondered if a pistol, we'll say your 1913 P08, would have been given the same number as the Reichs Revolver it probably replaced in 1913 or 1914. I think that would make sense.

We look forward to your photos. Did you perchance get to the Chantilly gun show this past weekend?

[Ron Smith]

Charlie, W.C. is my Hero. We share the same birthday, Jan 29. Only just a couple of years apart. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> Post some photos of your Luger. That's what this is all about. Show and Tell(brag and gloat). Don't pay any attention to George. He don't know nothin' bout no Loogers. He's only got one, and it's out of water most of the time.
BTW, I've been with USPS for 30yrs. Can cash it in on W.C.'s next birthday.

Ron

[1913 Erfurt]

George, I may have misidentified the "K" as nonscript. OOOOPS! I kind thought the 321 would be the weapon # though. The 42nd Division was opposite the 77th 78th and 80th divisions during the first few days of November 1918 in
the Corps push to Sedan from what I can figure..Missed Chantilly but did make NOVA Collectors at Hugo's the week past. I have a nice Gew 98 (Danzig 1915) that still looks nice and shoots well.all #'s match except I put a new firing pin in the bolt about 30 years ago.
Ron, my Dad has been a fan of his since the 30's 40's. He got me hooked on W.C. You can't beat "My Little Chickadee" I have the old poster of him playing cards with his high top hat from that film and it's framed, think I bought it back around 1970 when posters on the wall were all the rage. Do you guys at USPS throw boxes around as good as we do or are your footprints more clearer?

[John Sabato]

Here are the Luger photos of â??Erfurt 1913â?� a.k.a. Charlie, that he requested I post for him in this thread. Click on the 'thumbnail' to see the image fullsize...

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/charlieclark001.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/charlieclark001.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/charlieclark002.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/charlieclark002.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/charlieclark003.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/charlieclark003.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/charlieclark004.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/charlieclark004.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/charlieclark005.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/charlieclark005.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/charlieclark006.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/charlieclark006.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/charlieclark007.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/charlieclark007.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/charlieclark008.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/charlieclark008.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

Great Photos Charlie!

[John Sabato]

Here are some more of Charlie's photos of his 1913 Erfurt.

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/charlieclark009.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/charlieclark009.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/charlieclark010.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/charlieclark010.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/charlieclark011.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/charlieclark011.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/charlieclark012.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/charlieclark012.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/charlieclark013.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/charlieclark013.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

thanks for sharing Charlie!

[Pete Ebbink]

Curious take-down lever. Looks like it is Erfurt proofed...but shortened and lost its checkering pattern...?

[John Sabato]

Pete, I had lunch with Charlie last week and he indicated that the takedown lever broke while his grandfather still owned the gun if I remember correctly... a friend of his grandfather with appropriate skills and tools repaired the takedown lever by machining the button and welding it to the stub of the original lever...

[Ron Smith]

Charlie, We don't throw parcels. We have a launcher. More velocity that way. Our moto is "Well, it was fragile!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> Nice pistol!

Ron

[1913 Erfurt]

First of all, thanks John, your posting of the picts looks great.
Pete, my Dad has told me that while this P08 was still his, the take down lever cracked when he was taking it apart to clean it...about the mid 1950's. He had a good friend of his that was a gunsmith by hobby re-work and weld the piece, but regretfully removed the checkering. It is still the original take down lever, but I'm very dissapointed that it has detracted the value of this pistol.
John has remarked that the history of this P08 as far as my family goes perhaps makes it far more valuable to myself than any collector. I agree.
I would consider it priceless.

[Pete Ebbink]

Hi Charlie,

With your gun's connection to both your grandfather and your father; if she were mine...it would be the top gun in my collection.

Erfurt parts show up on e-Bay from time to time. I remember a couple of Erfurt lugers "parted out" this year alone.

You might get lucky and find a TD lever, Erfurt proofed, but probably with different 2-digit numbers if you keep an eye on e-Bay from time to time. Keep you original part as well...

LF member, LugerDoc (aka Tom Heller) might have a TD lever; he is a great guy and the largest luger parts seller in the USA...maybe send him an email :

hellerarms@webtv.net

I was wondering if there was enough length left of the modified TD lever to hold the trigger side plate in place when shooting...sounds like there is.

Nice luger...thanks for sharing it with us !

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

[1913 Erfurt]

Pete, thanks for the reply. The reworked lever has not affected the function my P08. It still shoots great. The last time I had it at the range the guy I was with who is as close to a marksman as could be with a handgun put three rounds out of five fired in the bullseye ring at the 25' pistol range. He'd never fired a Luger before and fell in love it. After we looked at the target he told me if I ever wanted to sell it let him know. Of course I would never do that.
One of these days I'll have to post a picture of my relative that relieved this pistol from the German officer. It is a photo of him in uniform just prior to the 80th Division's departure for France that was published in the Washington Evening Star newspaper in 1917. He was my Great Grandmother's oldest brother. So that would make him my Great Uncle, or would it be Great-Great Uncle?

[drbuster]

Hey Charlie, Sorry to jump in here kind of late but I'm the guy you posted to on the Great War Forum! Glad to see you are aboard here. You can learn a great deal, as I have, on this great Forum. Also look forward to chatting with you about the Great War. Also, I had trouble getting onto the Forum you mentioned: pistoleparabellum. Any help? Anyone here heard of this Forum?

[GunCat]

Welcome to the forum.