Mauser banner front toggle links

[1994Stoeger]

Hi all:

Yet another question from the peanut gallery:

1. When (what years) was the Mauser banner front toggle link used?

2. Under what circumstances was it used versus the other Mauser toggle links? Was it used for non-military (e.g., commercial/civilian or police) or would it have also made it onto military production?

Thanks in advance.

[Lugerdoc]

I believe that the first use of the Mauser Banner marked mid toggle link dates from the Portugese GNR contact circa 1935 or 36. It was not used on military lugers, just commerical, contracts and police pistols. TH

[Edward Tinker]

Well, I would technically think that the police bought commercial guns and brought them into police usage, just as they did in the 20's and early 30's (not banner, just commercial)..

[1994Stoeger]

Thanks to you both for your answers.

[guns3545]

Andrew,

Sorry for the late answer but the question is a bit complex.

Mauser basically started making Lugers in 1930 when they took over manufacture. But, they inherited parts for about 8000 guns from DWM and used them in their early production. So it was a while before the guns represented 100 percent Mauser production. Now the logo itself dates back to 1909 and the trademark was renewed in 1930. It was used on a host of Mauser produced weaponry that pre-dated the Luger.

When Mauser was awarded the contract for Military P.08s in 1934, production of the military version ramped up as did the production of commercial guns which included police and various domestic and export contracts.

As far as I know the very early variation Mauser Logo on a Luger appeared on a commercial contract for the Swiss in 1934. If you look at Don and Joop's book, you can see the phase-in during the early v-block guns. The logo then appears in one form or another, on all subsequent police and commercial contracts, ending in the 1943 timeframe when Luger production stopped at Mauser.

But, it was resurrected post WWII and as far as I know is still in use on some of the "New Luger" production at Mauser Werke which occasionally appears. But others can address this latter phase of Mauser production much better than I.

Hope this helps.

John

[1994Stoeger]

Thanks, guys. Just to make certain I am describing the correct toggle imprint, I am referring to the same at this link:

http://www.icollector.com/WWII-Nazi-...zine_i12220692

So, the next part of my question is: would you expect to see such a Mauser banner link on a G date luger?

[Edward Tinker]

Originally Posted by 1994Stoeger

...

So, the next part of my question is: would you expect to see such a Mauser banner link on a G date luger?

not that I have ever seen - I am sure there are others, but banner 41 and 42 stand out to me....

[mrerick]

The "G" on the receiver was an intended concealment of the 1935 manufacture date, as was the "S/42"; "42" and
"byf" on military toggles.

There would be no reason to conceal the date of manufacture on a commercially sold Luger. That's why the combination of a concealment "G" date receiver and a "Mauser" branded commercial toggle wouldn't make sense.

It would lead an Allied Commission inspector right to the source if it was ever encountered prior to complete repudiation of the Versailles treaty.

Toward the end of the war, many expedient things happened, including use of any and all parts that were leftover from earlier production, or perhaps stocked at a unit or higher level armory. This is why we see some odd combinations on things like the mysterious "Ku" marked Lugers. I have a 42 dated military accepted and proofed Luger that is in pristine condition, and has a Mauser Banner forward toggle (from the "g" block of 1942). It was refinished at some point, so may have been something created right after the war in Oberndorf for a G.I. from found parts.

Marc

[Lugerdoc]

John et al, The postwar Mauser Parabellums have a mid toggle link marked "Original" over the Mauser Banner, so would not be mistaken for a pre-1946 banner. I have several of these new postwar marked banner mid-links available @$75 each from my purchase of all of Interarms Parabellum parts when they went out of business. TH

[guns3545]

So, the next part of my question is: would you expect to see such a Mauser banner link on a G date luger?

Andrew,

While Mauser did deliver some G-dated pistols to the Police, all were S/42 marked on the toggle as this was the production code for Mauser.

Commercial production during this era was pretty much isolated to the v-block guns which had blank chambers until 1936 and either DWM or Mauser logo on the toggle link.

So the short answer to your question is: No, it is highly unlikely that one would see a g-date on an original gun with the appropriate Mauser logo. However as previously mentioned, the Ku guns exist and there was a flurry of activity in 1943/4 to clean house so there are many examples of military proofed guns with mixed parts produced, commonly called "out of sequence" manufactured.

[1994Stoeger]

Thanks to all for your collective input.