A.F. Stoeger new Lugers?

In your article "the History of the Pistole Parabellum" you mentioned that A.F. Stoeger still makes a 9mm stainless steel Luger. The gun dealers that I've talked to in the Portland,Oregon area keep telling me that the Luger is no longer made. Any chance on an address or an e-mail address so that I can find out how I might purchase one of these Lugers?


Thank you

[HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr]

Stoeger have never made any Lugers , but they have sold stainless pistols that Aimco have made.

I would highly recomend you to use you money on some old shooter luger insteaed.

There is pretty much VOpo and Russian reworks that can be had at the same money or cheaper.

Qualityvise betwen the amercian luger and the german made one for ww2 and earyler is like compering a East german Draband and a Rolls royse.

IF you search for words like Stainless, Aimco, Mitchell SS, Sword etc. you might find a lot of older postings about those "guns".

Regards HÃ?Â¥kan



http://www.vapensmedjan.com

Randy, as Hakan says, if you do a search on the words: SS, Stainless Steel or AIMCO you'll find plenty of information on stainless steel Lugers. AIMCO is the maker of this Luger. These days they are selling direct to the public, having broken their ties to Stoeger several years ago. They're located in Houston TX. A new Luger from them will cost about $800. The going rate at gun shows for a used one is in the range of $300 -$500, which should tell you something. Be advised that parts between an AIMCO luger and Mauser or other original manufacturers are NOT interchangable TO and INCLUDING Magazines. In the threads you'll find running debates as to the quailty of these weapons which should be insightful. I agree will Hakan, for $500 you can get a nice Russian or E. German reworked shooter. Tom Heller and Ralph Shattuck both sell Lugers in this catagory and can be contacted via the links to the Left. I have dealt will both gentleman. You will find both are honest, straight forward and a pleasure to deal with. Happy hunting.

[Steve]

I purchased one through Northwest Armoury on McLoughlin Blvd. Aimco is in Houston, Texas. Overall, I have been happy with mine. It shoots accurately and looks great. The price is a bit steep but that is a personal choice. Some of the forum menbers definately do not like them and I am not qualified to comment on the suitability of SS to an auto postol. Read the various posts and make a decision on your own. I like mine.

[Johnny Peppers]

One of the great things about living in America is that you can buy what you prefer as long as you comply with the law, and don't have to ask someone else if they approve of your purchase. If we all wanted the same gun, there would be a hell of a fight for that particular gun.

As another proud owner of a Stoeger-aimco Luger put simply it is well finished(they come stainless or matte black over stainless as I have) very accurate with beautiful walnut grips and are a joy to shoot in the fact that it is new and mine from the start. they are out there and you may want to consider the 6 inch navy model if you like accuracy and range. my navy luger does tight groups at 25 yards despite the hard registering sight.

[Steve]

I also have a Navy model and find it to be very accurate. One thing that you can do that will help is to buy a small round file (3-4mm dia) such as ones sold at model shops. Use it to file the tiny "V" notch into a round "U". File until the round reaches the bottom of the V notch. You will be amazed at how much easier it is to see the front sight! Just disasemble the toggle first and clean it afterwards to keep metal filings out of the gun. That would not be a good thing to have!


I like the Navy model because the longer barrel lends itself to better accuracy and I think makes for a more asthetically ballanced gun than the 4" barrel. Of course, esthetics is a very personal choice.

[HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr]

Steve.


I would just like to inform you that the accuracy have nothing to do with the barrellength.

The gun will not shoot better or worse if the barrel is 6" or 4".


The heavyer barrels do though tend to be much easyer to shoot with for mostly people as the balance and weithgs get a little bit better.


A good luger made during or before ww2 is a accuracy machine, I don't know of any other gunexcept the SIG P210 that shoots as well as those.


Regards HÃ?Â¥kan



http://www.vapensmedjan.com

[Johnny Peppers]

Jim Clark, the pistolsmith from Shreveport, Louisiana, made a target pistol on the 1911 Colt frame that he called a Long Heavy Slide. He added almost two inches to the slide and barrel and added a heavy Bomar rib. The .38 wadcutter which I owned came with a test target fired at 50 yards from a Ransom Rest. The ten shot group was one ragged hole slightly less than 1" in diameter. Not too shabby for an inferior pistol.

[HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr]

The 1911 has very good possiblitys of making highly accurate guns of. I have seen numerous pistols with extreme accuracy built on 1911's.

Best gun I have built was built on 1911 style in 9mm and shot groups less than 1/2" with Norma safety ammo. (very heavy loaded police ammo with TC bullet).

But I also know of a few P210's that shoot similar accuracy from .30 cal with geco bullets.


But I have never seen any big differnece betwen long or short barrels on 25 meters accuracyvise.


Regards HÃ?Â¥kan



http://www.vapensmedjan.com

[Johnny Peppers]

Most pistols shoot good at 25 yards, but the 50 yard line seperates the wheat for the chafe. Clark did not add the extra two inches of barrel and slide only to increase the inherent accuracy. The extra two inches also increases the forward weight of the pistol, and increases the sight radius for more accurate sight alignment. He also made a standard length 1911 that had an extended front sight to aid in sight alignment. His .38 Wadcutters were a pain to reload for, but there was never anything that could shoot as accurately as they could in their class. Both his .38 and .45 ruled the pistol matches in the US for many years.

The 6" Navy Luger is a very accurate service pistol due to having the longest sight radius of any P08's.

basic physics Hakan. the longer the bullet travels in the enclosed space of the barrel the greater velocity it acquires until it exits the barrel. At that point the bullet travels its arc trajectory-against air resistance. the longer the barrel the greater the exiting velocity and the extension of the trajectory giving greater muzzle velocity(better accuracy long range-greater hitting power short range) feel free to e mail me at midway68@aol.com

[Steve]

The longer barrel probably is not more accurate but it gives a longer distance between the front and rear sight and that would make it seem more accurate.

[HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr]

I an not agree at all here, as you are focusing on the wrong things.


First a gun that will shoot less than an 1" at 25 yards is superaccurate, very few guns do that.

If the gun shoot that tight at 25 yards it will also shoot extremely good att 50 yards.

That is basic physics, at least as long as we not are talking wadcutters.


The difference in sightradius is very small.

In the book Experiments of a handgunner the author did trials with a superaccurate gun, he did shoot it with its normal 7" sightradius.

And he did extend the sightradius to 14".

There was no differnce at the target, same accuracy.


I have built a number of 12" barreld revolvers for our swedish field magnum target shooting.

But honestly a lot of the competitions have been won by 6" guns, and those guys shoot out to 200 yards.


For the real experinced and extremely good shooter the really long sightradius can surely be a help, but for the casual shooter who not can hold 5 rounds at 4" at 25 yards everytime he shoots it have surely no effect at all.


Regards HÃ?Â¥kan





http://www.vapensmedjan.com

[Johnny Peppers]

The discussion was about target pistols and those that can shoot them. The Ransom Rest is used to develop loads and to show the absolute accuracy the pistol is capable of. As with the Clark pistols that routinely shoot 1" groups at 50 yards, the accuracy of the pistol has been taken out of the equation and the rest is up to the shooter.

To say that the sight radius has no effect on the ability of the shooter to more accurately align the sights is simply wrong. The Clark Long Slides have a 28% longer sight radius, and with the use of your trig tables it doesn't take much to see how little a deviation in sight alignment between a 7" and a 9" sight radius makes at 50 yards.

Sight radius also comes into play with target rifles using open sights. An olympic style rifle could be made with a 16" barrel of the same weight as a 24" barrel, but the competitor would be handicapped by the very short sight radius. Optimum sight radius most definitely has it's place in competition.

[Dok]

[Thor]

I agree with Johnny, it is what the shooter can do with the weapon. When you take the human factor into place the longer site radius (yes the Navy is the longest of the three barrel lengths 4, 6, 8 as already mentioned. Has to do with the placement of the rear sight)is a benefit. The sight radius is important assuming one can see the sights. Some of us old guys need a short barrel to SEE the front sight blade well. I got progressive bifocals and it helped me a lot! I shot the Navy barrel length the best I would say! I have never shot a carbine which might be interesting! Bis Spaeter!! And I like the civil tone of the disagreements, it lends hope to the character of this excellent forum! ~Thor~

[HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr]

Most competition rifles could have 32" barrels like they once used ot have, but they usally don't the normal lenth is 24".

Ihave been competing a lot in 300 meter rifles, approximately what you call high power and mostly shooters went down to 24" over the last 20 years.


But you are right, the sightradius could be important for maybe a handfull people in the world.

Not many could use and gain that extra elngth.

If I not is wrong the UIT worldrecord is still held by a smith m/52, how dould that be with that short radius.

Why have all uit pistols horter than 6" barrels and not 6" wish is the maximum allowed?


On a luger to disucss that the 4 or 6 " barrellength is important is rather rediculos when the sights are that poor.


Regards HÃ?Â¥kan



http://www.vapensmedjan.com

[HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr]

I have long time ago for my personal use found original lugers with 4" barrels to light and I needs more weigth.

I have made a dramatic change in my competition results with adding the heavy oktagon barrel.

I am pretty sure that most people finds the same with the navy as its better balanced and they get better results with it.

But the results is due to the balance and not the sightradius.


Regards HÃ?Â¥kan



http://www.vapensmedjan.com

[Marvin]

Dok,


I agree with you that this has been very informative thread! My problem with the sight radius, barrel length, etc, is that it does not matter as the pistol is better than me anyway, HA, HA, HA. Ted said a mouthful when he talked about our "old eyes"!


Hakan, I also liek to shoot high power rifle and as my eyes get older, I can see the target fine, but trying to see the sights and target is very difficult now. I still do OK, but I could never do well in competition anymore. I hate the use of scopes on a rifle, but at least I can see the target and know how good the rifle shoots.


marvin