DWM Luger

Daniel · 12-05-2002, 05:03 PM

Hello all, need some help...acquired DWM Com'l. Serial number 85xx i in 30 cal., original rust blue & straw,all matching #'s,plated unnumbered wood bottom mag,"Gesichert" under safety lever,"Geladen" extractor,unfluted firing pin, no stock lug,C/N on left side of barrel extension and the forward link,3-3/4" barrel and a grip safety.Any comments as to what I should call it? Sorry, no pics..,no digital camera, got a scanner, I can e-mail to anyone interested. Best regards, Daniel <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

Thor · 12-05-2002, 05:23 PM

Sounds like a rework of a Pre 1913 DWM Luger turned into a 1920 Commercial or Alphabet Luger.
The "i" suffix and the crown N and the barrel length and caliber indicate this.

Daniel · 12-05-2002, 05:29 PM

Thor, with no stock lug and a grip safety?

Thor · 12-05-2002, 05:51 PM

I do believe that is what you have. Most earlier 30 Lugers would have a 4 3/4" barrel and would not have the upright crown N. The Crown N proof in the upright position was only used after 1918 and at that time they were adding the stock lug, so I would think your frame w/o stock lug was made prior to 1912 and the 30 Luger barrel added in the 1920s and reproofed. I do believe it is a 1920 Commercial 30 Luger. Many of these were Imperial Lugers that were reworked as is the case of your Luger IMO.

Edward Tinker · 12-05-2002, 06:01 PM

Daniel, can you lay it on your scanner and scan her in and post the picture, or send me a picture and I will post it for you?

Both sides?

Daniel · 12-05-2002, 09:31 PM

Scan on it's way.......I hope

added by ebt, sorry it took so long

Lugerdoc · 12-06-2002, 09:27 AM

Your short frame 7.65mm Luger with grip safety is of the 1906 style, but the "i" suffix serial indicates production or rework after 1919. So I would call it a M06/20 variation. These are discussed in Kenynon's "Lugers at Random" on page 180. These grip safety commericals were popular with the Swiss (see page 192) and other non-German customers (see page 198). Tom H.

Thor · 12-06-2002, 11:56 AM

Tom, I noticed that the variation shown in Lugers at Random has a swiss cross, the safety marking removed and the stock lug ground off. Wonder if his has any of these features. I did notice that the Luger shown on this page did fall in the "i" block as does the Luger we are discussing......interesting!!

Daniel · 12-07-2002, 07:57 AM

Thanks all, Daniel <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

Lugerdoc · 12-07-2002, 08:17 AM

Thor, These "i" block commerical lugers were the first new production (possibly using some left over WW1 parts) DWM commericals after the 5 digit serial numbers reached 99999, then DWM switch to the military style serialization starting with the i block. Many in this range went to Kreighoff for commerical sale in Germany, to the Swiss as you mentioned and to others: eg Abercrombie & Fitch el al. Tom

12-05-2002, 05:03 PM	#1
Daniel User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ct. and Ma. Posts: 152 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	DWM Luger Hello all, need some help...acquired DWM Com'l. Serial number 85xx i in 30 cal., original rust blue & straw,all matching #'s,plated unnumbered wood bottom mag,"Gesichert" under safety lever,"Geladen" extractor,unfluted firing pin, no stock lug,C/N on left side of barrel extension and the forward link,3-3/4" barrel and a grip safety.Any comments as to what I should call it? Sorry, no pics..,no digital camera, got a scanner, I can e-mail to anyone interested. Best regards, Daniel <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

12-05-2002, 05:23 PM	#2
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Sounds like a rework of a Pre 1913 DWM Luger turned into a 1920 Commercial or Alphabet Luger. The "i" suffix and the crown N and the barrel length and caliber indicate this. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

12-05-2002, 05:51 PM	#4
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	I do believe that is what you have. Most earlier 30 Lugers would have a 4 3/4" barrel and would not have the upright crown N. The Crown N proof in the upright position was only used after 1918 and at that time they were adding the stock lug, so I would think your frame w/o stock lug was made prior to 1912 and the 30 Luger barrel added in the 1920s and reproofed. I do believe it is a 1920 Commercial 30 Luger. Many of these were Imperial Lugers that were reworked as is the case of your Luger IMO. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

12-05-2002, 06:01 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,910 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Daniel, can you lay it on your scanner and scan her in and post the picture, or send me a picture and I will post it for you? Both sides? __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-06-2002, 09:27 AM	#7
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Your short frame 7.65mm Luger with grip safety is of the 1906 style, but the "i" suffix serial indicates production or rework after 1919. So I would call it a M06/20 variation. These are discussed in Kenynon's "Lugers at Random" on page 180. These grip safety commericals were popular with the Swiss (see page 192) and other non-German customers (see page 198). Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

12-05-2002, 05:29 PM	#3
Daniel User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ct. and Ma. Posts: 152 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thor, with no stock lug and a grip safety?

12-05-2002, 09:31 PM	#6
Daniel User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ct. and Ma. Posts: 152 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Scan on it's way.......I hope added by ebt, sorry it took so long

12-06-2002, 11:56 AM	#8
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Tom, I noticed that the variation shown in Lugers at Random has a swiss cross, the safety marking removed and the stock lug ground off. Wonder if his has any of these features. I did notice that the Luger shown on this page did fall in the "i" block as does the Luger we are discussing......interesting!! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

12-07-2002, 07:57 AM	#9
Daniel User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ct. and Ma. Posts: 152 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks all, Daniel <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

12-07-2002, 08:17 AM	#10
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Thor, These "i" block commerical lugers were the first new production (possibly using some left over WW1 parts) DWM commericals after the 5 digit serial numbers reached 99999, then DWM switch to the military style serialization starting with the i block. Many in this range went to Kreighoff for commerical sale in Germany, to the Swiss as you mentioned and to others: eg Abercrombie & Fitch el al. Tom __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net