Hollowpoints For The Luger

saxman · 03-24-2003, 09:59 PM

Haven't tried actually firing them, but Speer Gold Dot hollowpoint ammo loads easily in my DWM. I was trying to determine if the breech face was holding the case mouth tight against the stop ring in the chamber, or if the round was being held to the breech face by the extractor, as some are saying is the norm in auto-loading pistols. I tried a Kel-Tec, the Luger and a Beretta 92, and they all seemed to hold the round tightly in the chamber with no apparent movement from probing from the muzzle with a pencil eraser. Anyway, after snapping the Speer into the Luger (loading from the magazine by releasing the fully retracted toggle), I remembered that everybody says many Lugers will not load hollowpoints, so I thought I'd let you know of a round to possibly try. Another good choice would be the Cor-Bon 'Powrball', a hollowpoint with a plastic ball in the nose so it loads just like a round nose. I don't know of anyone using a Luger for their personal defense gun, but there you have it.

Thor · 03-24-2003, 11:17 PM

I have found that Winchester Silvertips are pretty good feeders in the Luger pistol. I also like the Golden Saber Hollow points made by REmington.

Steve Richards · 03-25-2003, 02:08 AM

One time many years ago I read an article about using a gun for self defense that was written by a lawyer. His advice was NEVER use handloads for self defense if you have a choice. The reason given was that it can be twisted to show that you purposely created a cartridge to create the most horrific wound possible and that you are therefor a bloodthirsty wacko. Always use a factory load for self defense was his advice and it strikes me as being sound logic.

unspellable · 03-25-2003, 07:58 AM

The problem I have encountered with hollow points is due to the sloped magazine and the fact that the bullet ogive rides on the magazine wall. If the hollow point is large enough and the edge sharp enough it will drag on the front of the magazine and hang up in the magazine. You can check for this with the magazine alone.

Lonnie Zimmerman · 03-25-2003, 11:21 AM

I have mentioned MANY times on this thread that I use nothing in my Lugers but Win 115gr HP"S, and have no problems.
Lonnie

Johnny C. Kitchens · 03-25-2003, 08:22 PM

I recently tested several different brands and types of 9mm ammo in my byf42. It took everything just fine, except for Corbon 115gr and 90gr HP loads. They just refused to work right. Most of the bullets fired were HP...

saxman · 03-25-2003, 08:51 PM

Good point about hollowpoint edges catching on the magazine. I think hollowpoints should be made so the missing round nose (ogive) is accounted for in the OAL. In other words, if you load the hollowpoint out to roundnose OAL, the sharp edge has got to hang up on something. The correct OAL would be minus the missing round nose - imagine taking a regular military round of ball ammo and grinding a flat on the nose - that round won't hang up in the mag, because it's now shorter, but if you then pulled the bullet out of the case to the original overall length, you can see how it would hang up. I had some HPs made for .30 Carbine using the Speer #1835 'Hollowpoint Varminter', and that's what we did. Design OAL for the regular carbine ammo is 1.68", and we cut it back to 1.63". The crimp line on the bullet was still exposed, so they could have been set back even more. Even so, they load fine in the carbine and work in the mags. You may have to take your caliper and measure hollowpoint ammo before buying - it's all different.

Lonnie Zimmerman · 03-25-2003, 10:17 PM

The OAL of my loads with the HP"S is 1.150.
Lonnie

unspellable · 03-26-2003, 08:26 AM

Saxman, the Parabellum magazine requires that the bullet nose ride on the front wall. It's this trick that accomodates our beloved grip angle. The cartridge is tapered and if simply stacked, requires a bannana shaped magazine. If the OAL is too short, the cartridge will hit the feed ramp at an incorrect angle. The same trick is employed in most 22 LR pisrols to accomodate the rimmed cartridge.

The answer to the hollowpoint dragging on the magazine wall is to use a bullet such that the ogive rides on the wall or if the edge of the hollow rides on the wall it must be well rounded. A picture would be worth 1k words, but I have some hollow point loads that will hang in the magazine each and every time but will go through a Ruger nicely. They have a large opening with a sharp edge.

saxman · 03-26-2003, 11:03 AM

Interesting point, and well taken.

Jerry.B · 04-19-2003, 01:04 PM

A recent post stated "... I don't know of anyone using a Luger for their personal defense gun...". Is this a prevailing view that the Luger is not good for this purpose (with the right round)? Why?

Edward Tinker · 04-19-2003, 01:17 PM

Simply comes down to practicality.

1. It is an old design, and not as reliable as the 1911A1.

2. If you use it for self defense, it will be taken by the police, numbers probably etched on it and not taken care of.

3. If I had one available, and bad guys were at the door, I could and would use it, but there are other guns better suited for that task, such as a 12 gauge.

Ed

Aaron · 04-19-2003, 10:17 PM

Probing down the muzzle with a live round in the chamber is a bit risky, isn't it?

stymie · 04-20-2003, 01:22 AM

Glaser Safety Slugs work great in my Mauser Parabellum. I'm going to have to try those Cor-Bon Powerballs for the mushroom effect. Jim Scoutten was pimping them on "American Shooter" again today.

unspellable · 04-20-2003, 12:45 PM

Edward's 2nd point. For social purposes use a pistol that's good, but not a sentimental favorite. If it comes to using it you can plan on the police confiscating it, etching all the details of the case on it with an engraver, letting it rust a bit, and waiting until a year or so before you get it back. If then.

I speak from personal experience. Never had to use one for social purposes, but I've been through the rest of the routine. They ruined a perfectly good revolver.

kidvett · 04-23-2003, 11:50 PM

I agree with Ed that the Luger design is an old one that had it's popularity as a carry piece a long time ago...

But even in those days it would not have been my first choice. How about a Fitz Special: chopped down New Service 45 LC or an old 1911...

9mm is not my favorite defense round. I tend to like big bores. Compactness is also a factor I consider ( reason for that Glock 19 )

Also that Luger safety is not the fastest around and I'm not so sure I'd feel confident to carry it cocked & locked.

Bottom line is that there are superior modern defensive pistols available...

kidvett

03-24-2003, 11:17 PM	#2
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	I have found that Winchester Silvertips are pretty good feeders in the Luger pistol. I also like the Golden Saber Hollow points made by REmington. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

03-25-2003, 11:21 AM	#5
Lonnie Zimmerman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 523 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I have mentioned MANY times on this thread that I use nothing in my Lugers but Win 115gr HP"S, and have no problems. Lonnie __________________ Lonnie Zimmerman

03-25-2003, 08:22 PM	#6
Johnny C. Kitchens User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arlington, Texas Posts: 518 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts	I recently tested several different brands and types of 9mm ammo in my byf42. It took everything just fine, except for Corbon 115gr and 90gr HP loads. They just refused to work right. Most of the bullets fired were HP... __________________ Johnny C. Kitchens

03-25-2003, 08:51 PM	#7
saxman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 301 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Good point about hollowpoint edges catching on the magazine. I think hollowpoints should be made so the missing round nose (ogive) is accounted for in the OAL. In other words, if you load the hollowpoint out to roundnose OAL, the sharp edge has got to hang up on something. The correct OAL would be minus the missing round nose - imagine taking a regular military round of ball ammo and grinding a flat on the nose - that round won't hang up in the mag, because it's now shorter, but if you then pulled the bullet out of the case to the original overall length, you can see how it would hang up. I had some HPs made for .30 Carbine using the Speer #1835 'Hollowpoint Varminter', and that's what we did. Design OAL for the regular carbine ammo is 1.68", and we cut it back to 1.63". The crimp line on the bullet was still exposed, so they could have been set back even more. Even so, they load fine in the carbine and work in the mags. You may have to take your caliper and measure hollowpoint ammo before buying - it's all different. __________________ You can lead 'em to the water, but you can't make 'em drink.

03-25-2003, 10:17 PM	#8
Lonnie Zimmerman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 523 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	The OAL of my loads with the HP"S is 1.150. Lonnie __________________ Lonnie Zimmerman

03-24-2003, 09:59 PM	#1
saxman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 301 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hollowpoints For The Luger Haven't tried actually firing them, but Speer Gold Dot hollowpoint ammo loads easily in my DWM. I was trying to determine if the breech face was holding the case mouth tight against the stop ring in the chamber, or if the round was being held to the breech face by the extractor, as some are saying is the norm in auto-loading pistols. I tried a Kel-Tec, the Luger and a Beretta 92, and they all seemed to hold the round tightly in the chamber with no apparent movement from probing from the muzzle with a pencil eraser. Anyway, after snapping the Speer into the Luger (loading from the magazine by releasing the fully retracted toggle), I remembered that everybody says many Lugers will not load hollowpoints, so I thought I'd let you know of a round to possibly try. Another good choice would be the Cor-Bon 'Powrball', a hollowpoint with a plastic ball in the nose so it loads just like a round nose. I don't know of anyone using a Luger for their personal defense gun, but there you have it. __________________ You can lead 'em to the water, but you can't make 'em drink.

03-25-2003, 02:08 AM	#3
Steve Richards User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Beaverton, Oregon Posts: 487 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	One time many years ago I read an article about using a gun for self defense that was written by a lawyer. His advice was NEVER use handloads for self defense if you have a choice. The reason given was that it can be twisted to show that you purposely created a cartridge to create the most horrific wound possible and that you are therefor a bloodthirsty wacko. Always use a factory load for self defense was his advice and it strikes me as being sound logic.

03-25-2003, 07:58 AM	#4
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts	The problem I have encountered with hollow points is due to the sloped magazine and the fact that the bullet ogive rides on the magazine wall. If the hollow point is large enough and the edge sharp enough it will drag on the front of the magazine and hang up in the magazine. You can check for this with the magazine alone.

03-26-2003, 08:26 AM	#9
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts	Saxman, the Parabellum magazine requires that the bullet nose ride on the front wall. It's this trick that accomodates our beloved grip angle. The cartridge is tapered and if simply stacked, requires a bannana shaped magazine. If the OAL is too short, the cartridge will hit the feed ramp at an incorrect angle. The same trick is employed in most 22 LR pisrols to accomodate the rimmed cartridge. The answer to the hollowpoint dragging on the magazine wall is to use a bullet such that the ogive rides on the wall or if the edge of the hollow rides on the wall it must be well rounded. A picture would be worth 1k words, but I have some hollow point loads that will hang in the magazine each and every time but will go through a Ruger nicely. They have a large opening with a sharp edge.

03-26-2003, 11:03 AM	#10
saxman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 301 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Interesting point, and well taken. __________________ You can lead 'em to the water, but you can't make 'em drink.

04-19-2003, 01:04 PM	#11
Jerry.B User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Arizona, USA Posts: 24 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	A recent post stated "... I don't know of anyone using a Luger for their personal defense gun...". Is this a prevailing view that the Luger is not good for this purpose (with the right round)? Why? __________________ JerryB, Arizona, USA

04-19-2003, 01:17 PM	#12
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,916 Thanks: 1,995 Thanked 4,507 Times in 2,081 Posts	Simply comes down to practicality. 1. It is an old design, and not as reliable as the 1911A1. 2. If you use it for self defense, it will be taken by the police, numbers probably etched on it and not taken care of. 3. If I had one available, and bad guys were at the door, I could and would use it, but there are other guns better suited for that task, such as a 12 gauge. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

04-19-2003, 10:17 PM	#13
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	Probing down the muzzle with a live round in the chamber is a bit risky, isn't it?

04-20-2003, 01:22 AM	#14
stymie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: KC,MO USA Posts: 114 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Glaser Safety Slugs work great in my Mauser Parabellum. I'm going to have to try those Cor-Bon Powerballs for the mushroom effect. Jim Scoutten was pimping them on "American Shooter" again today. __________________ "Irony can be pretty ironic!"

04-20-2003, 12:45 PM	#15
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts	Edward's 2nd point. For social purposes use a pistol that's good, but not a sentimental favorite. If it comes to using it you can plan on the police confiscating it, etching all the details of the case on it with an engraver, letting it rust a bit, and waiting until a year or so before you get it back. If then. I speak from personal experience. Never had to use one for social purposes, but I've been through the rest of the routine. They ruined a perfectly good revolver.

04-23-2003, 11:50 PM	#16
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	I agree with Ed that the Luger design is an old one that had it's popularity as a carry piece a long time ago... But even in those days it would not have been my first choice. How about a Fitz Special: chopped down New Service 45 LC or an old 1911... 9mm is not my favorite defense round. I tend to like big bores. Compactness is also a factor I consider ( reason for that Glock 19 ) Also that Luger safety is not the fastest around and I'm not so sure I'd feel confident to carry it cocked & locked. Bottom line is that there are superior modern defensive pistols available... kidvett