Help Needed

charon041 · 10-17-2009, 01:29 PM

Hi Everyone:
I have a DWM American Eagle grip safety 9mm Luger, #380XX. The gun is absolutely beautiful but is driving me crazy. It has been tuned by a very prominent Luger gunsmith who swears he has test fired it and it works perfectly. However, it refuses to feed, jamming every second round. I have sent it back to him three times and have finally given up.
I have 5 magazines for this gun, all originals. Three have been rebuilt, springs and bases replaced, etc. The other two are East German milled magazines that look brand new. They have not been tuned. The gun will not work with any of them.
The strange thing is that when I cycle the gun by hand every round feeds perfectly from every magazine. But when I shoot the gun I get constant feed jams. Sometimes the rounds ride up at a 45 degree angle with the bullets above the chamber, and sometimes the action cycles and the bolt closes on an empty chamber.
I have tried all kinds of ball ammo, mostly Winchester White Box 115 grain and NATO 124 grain. Nothing works.
Can anyone help me out?
TIA,
Phil

Mauser720 · 10-17-2009, 01:47 PM

Charon041 -

Problems like the one you are describing are frequently the fault of the magazine.

Even though you have even tried new springs, this still sounds like a weak magazine spring to me. Or it can even be faulty positioning of the magazine lips too.

Most shooters will recommend you try a MecGar brand magazine and this will likely solve the problem. Luger Doc (Tom Heller) on this Forum will have them for you if you care to order one.

Another possibility has to do with your grip (believe it or not). Try a good firm grip rather than a relaxed grip and see if this makes any difference. Of course if you are already holding onto it firmly, then disregard this suggestion.

Karl · 10-18-2009, 06:07 PM

Phil,

Can you try your magazines in another Luger? In my experience the magazine is usually the problem so it's a good place to start. Also, what ammo is your gunsmith using? Does the hold open work? Try firing a single round - if it doesn't lock open then it is possible that the recoil spring is too strong for your ammo. Best of luck. KFS

lugerholsterrepair · 10-18-2009, 07:08 PM

Another possibility has to do with your grip (believe it or not). Try a good firm grip rather than a relaxed grip and see if this makes any difference. Of course if you are already holding onto it firmly, then disregard this suggestion.

Trying that many mags..it's not your magazines. or ammo. I suspect the firmness of your shooting stance as Ron indicates. The problems you seem to have can result from limp wristed shooting..allowing the pistol to roll backwards in your hand and not giving the toggle enough resistance to operate.
Get aggressive with your shooting hold and see if that helps.

Jerry Burney

charon041 · 10-18-2009, 08:48 PM

Thanks for all the help and advice offered. The problem is not due to limp-wristing. I made a special effort to hold the gun as tightly as possible with both hands and to lock wrists and shoulders. It did not help. Next time at the range I will see if the slide will lock back on the last shot. Also I will push the magazine up hard into the grip with my left palm when firing with both hands to see if that will help. Perhaps the magazine catch is faulty and holding the magazine too low. I ordered a MecGar magazine and will try that as well. If none of that helps I will try replacing the recoil spring with Wolff standard and reduced power springs. If all fails I will have to find another Luger gunsmith. Can anyone suggest someone really good?

DavidJayUden · 10-18-2009, 10:20 PM

Reminds me of a commercial Luger that absolutely gave me fits. I tried everything to get it to feed my cast reloads. Mags, mag springs, main springs, mag. catch, polished feed ramp, one or more trips to the Doc, etc, with a trip to the range in between each "fix". It would function well with Sellor and Beloit ammo, but I'm too cheap to shoot factory loads all the time.
What did I ever do to fix it? Easy.
I put an artillery top end on it. Now it will drive tacks and eats everything.
Not much help I know, just letting you know that you're not the first to have these problems.
DJU

HuntMaster · 10-19-2009, 09:12 AM

I had the same problem on my 1914 DWM 30 Luger. The problem was solved with a 17- coil mainspring.
Derek

charon041 · 10-19-2009, 10:44 AM

Derek, did you cut the mainspring to 17 coils or replace it?

My gunsmith recommended 115 grain Winchester White Box so that is what I used. Then I tried NATO 124 grain, which is +p+ and much more powerful. I do not have another Luger to try my magazines, nor do I have another upper.

The gun is driving me nuts. It worked better, although not perfectly, before I had it tuned. Now it is very accurate and a pleaseure to shoot, but only one shot at a time. The gunsmith replaced the recoil spring, so maybe that is the problem.

Phil

John Sabato · 10-19-2009, 11:31 AM

It would be helpful if you posted your location so that members and qualified gunsmiths who are near you could be identified. Face to face with your helper would be preferable to mailing it to someone... You can edit your profile and specify the city you live in.

Vlim · 10-19-2009, 11:48 AM

Hi,

Pushing the magazine bottom upwards while shooting usually creates more problems than it solves.

Also take a look at the extractor spring. I had a gun that drove me up the wall, not willing to repeat properly. I replaced the little coil spring under the extractor and from that moment onwards it functioned great. The extracted case blocked the feeding of the next round, causing symptomps you describe.

HuntMaster · 10-19-2009, 10:14 PM

Phil, I bought the recoil spring as-is from Tom Heller (lugerdoc). The fact that you said sometimes the bullet would lodge in the top of the chamber without going in was the exact same problem I was having.
My Luger originally came with a 21 coil spring. I am now using Fiocchi 93 gr ammo without any problems.
Hope this helps.
Derek

charon041 · 10-21-2009, 06:02 PM

Hi all,
I am in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. I will check the extractor spring as well as te other suggestions.
Phil

jamese · 10-22-2009, 04:18 AM

Phil,

I am in Stuart, and I would be happy to look at your Luger. Send me an e-mail where I can contact you.

jamesegg@bellsouth.net

LugerVern · 10-22-2009, 07:16 AM

Your recoil spring may be too weak, use the paper test on the back of your receiver to check this.

If too weak the toggle will hit the rear of the frame too hard stressing the action this causes the toggle to slam forward too hard, when the bullet hits the ramp it jumps/bounces causing a jam

Sometimes the stressing causes the front of the toggle to raise enough to not strip a new cartridge from the magazine. a mag that sits low or a well worn gun makes this more likely to happen.

hope this helps-> good luck

Vern

charon041 · 11-06-2009, 02:51 PM

Vern:
Thanks for your suggestions. What is the "paper test" you refer to in your post?
Thanks,
Phil

Lugerdoc · 11-16-2009, 10:23 AM

Phil, This sound like you need a WEAKER recoil spring. If that's not the problem, I would also check the "S" shaped connector link to your recoil system. If this gets bent, it may not allow full travel of your toggle assy. TH

lugerholsterrepair · 11-16-2009, 02:29 PM

Tom, I would also check the "S" shaped connector link to your recoil system. If this gets bent, it may not allow full travel of your toggle assy. TH

This part is hardened to a brittle consistancy..Will it bend?

Jerry Burney

Lugerdoc · 11-17-2009, 11:25 AM

Jerry, I have seen them bend out of shape and have also seen a few PO8s with the shorter M1900 link installed in error. TH

10-17-2009, 01:29 PM	#1
charon041 User Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Help Needed Hi Everyone: I have a DWM American Eagle grip safety 9mm Luger, #380XX. The gun is absolutely beautiful but is driving me crazy. It has been tuned by a very prominent Luger gunsmith who swears he has test fired it and it works perfectly. However, it refuses to feed, jamming every second round. I have sent it back to him three times and have finally given up. I have 5 magazines for this gun, all originals. Three have been rebuilt, springs and bases replaced, etc. The other two are East German milled magazines that look brand new. They have not been tuned. The gun will not work with any of them. The strange thing is that when I cycle the gun by hand every round feeds perfectly from every magazine. But when I shoot the gun I get constant feed jams. Sometimes the rounds ride up at a 45 degree angle with the bullets above the chamber, and sometimes the action cycles and the bolt closes on an empty chamber. I have tried all kinds of ball ammo, mostly Winchester White Box 115 grain and NATO 124 grain. Nothing works. Can anyone help me out? TIA, Phil

10-17-2009, 01:47 PM	#2
Mauser720 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 535 Thanks: 18 Thanked 49 Times in 33 Posts	Charon041 - Problems like the one you are describing are frequently the fault of the magazine. Even though you have even tried new springs, this still sounds like a weak magazine spring to me. Or it can even be faulty positioning of the magazine lips too. Most shooters will recommend you try a MecGar brand magazine and this will likely solve the problem. Luger Doc (Tom Heller) on this Forum will have them for you if you care to order one. Another possibility has to do with your grip (believe it or not). Try a good firm grip rather than a relaxed grip and see if this makes any difference. Of course if you are already holding onto it firmly, then disregard this suggestion. __________________ Mauser720 - Ron "Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it."

10-18-2009, 07:08 PM	#4
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,850 Thanked 3,100 Times in 1,426 Posts	Another possibility has to do with your grip (believe it or not). Try a good firm grip rather than a relaxed grip and see if this makes any difference. Of course if you are already holding onto it firmly, then disregard this suggestion. Trying that many mags..it's not your magazines. or ammo. I suspect the firmness of your shooting stance as Ron indicates. The problems you seem to have can result from limp wristed shooting..allowing the pistol to roll backwards in your hand and not giving the toggle enough resistance to operate. Get aggressive with your shooting hold and see if that helps. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

10-18-2009, 08:48 PM	#5
charon041 User Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Help Needed Thanks for all the help and advice offered. The problem is not due to limp-wristing. I made a special effort to hold the gun as tightly as possible with both hands and to lock wrists and shoulders. It did not help. Next time at the range I will see if the slide will lock back on the last shot. Also I will push the magazine up hard into the grip with my left palm when firing with both hands to see if that will help. Perhaps the magazine catch is faulty and holding the magazine too low. I ordered a MecGar magazine and will try that as well. If none of that helps I will try replacing the recoil spring with Wolff standard and reduced power springs. If all fails I will have to find another Luger gunsmith. Can anyone suggest someone really good?

10-19-2009, 10:44 AM	#8
charon041 User Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Help Needed Derek, did you cut the mainspring to 17 coils or replace it? My gunsmith recommended 115 grain Winchester White Box so that is what I used. Then I tried NATO 124 grain, which is +p+ and much more powerful. I do not have another Luger to try my magazines, nor do I have another upper. The gun is driving me nuts. It worked better, although not perfectly, before I had it tuned. Now it is very accurate and a pleaseure to shoot, but only one shot at a time. The gunsmith replaced the recoil spring, so maybe that is the problem. Phil

10-18-2009, 06:07 PM	#3
Karl Lifer - Twice Over Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Savannah Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 239 Times in 111 Posts	Phil, Can you try your magazines in another Luger? In my experience the magazine is usually the problem so it's a good place to start. Also, what ammo is your gunsmith using? Does the hold open work? Try firing a single round - if it doesn't lock open then it is possible that the recoil spring is too strong for your ammo. Best of luck. KFS

10-18-2009, 10:20 PM	#6
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Reminds me of a commercial Luger that absolutely gave me fits. I tried everything to get it to feed my cast reloads. Mags, mag springs, main springs, mag. catch, polished feed ramp, one or more trips to the Doc, etc, with a trip to the range in between each "fix". It would function well with Sellor and Beloit ammo, but I'm too cheap to shoot factory loads all the time. What did I ever do to fix it? Easy. I put an artillery top end on it. Now it will drive tacks and eats everything. Not much help I know, just letting you know that you're not the first to have these problems. DJU

10-19-2009, 09:12 AM	#7
HuntMaster User Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 69 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	I had the same problem on my 1914 DWM 30 Luger. The problem was solved with a 17- coil mainspring. Derek

10-19-2009, 11:31 AM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	It would be helpful if you posted your location so that members and qualified gunsmiths who are near you could be identified. Face to face with your helper would be preferable to mailing it to someone... You can edit your profile and specify the city you live in. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-19-2009, 11:48 AM	#10
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,034 Thanks: 1,019 Thanked 3,882 Times in 1,186 Posts	Hi, Pushing the magazine bottom upwards while shooting usually creates more problems than it solves. Also take a look at the extractor spring. I had a gun that drove me up the wall, not willing to repeat properly. I replaced the little coil spring under the extractor and from that moment onwards it functioned great. The extracted case blocked the feeding of the next round, causing symptomps you describe.

10-19-2009, 10:14 PM	#11
HuntMaster User Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 69 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Phil, I bought the recoil spring as-is from Tom Heller (lugerdoc). The fact that you said sometimes the bullet would lodge in the top of the chamber without going in was the exact same problem I was having. My Luger originally came with a 21 coil spring. I am now using Fiocchi 93 gr ammo without any problems. Hope this helps. Derek

10-21-2009, 06:02 PM	#12
charon041 User Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Help Needed Hi all, I am in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. I will check the extractor spring as well as te other suggestions. Phil

10-22-2009, 04:18 AM	#13
jamese User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: South Florida Posts: 789 Thanks: 0 Thanked 84 Times in 34 Posts	Phil, I am in Stuart, and I would be happy to look at your Luger. Send me an e-mail where I can contact you. jamesegg@bellsouth.net __________________ The "truth" is a matter of Perception

10-22-2009, 07:16 AM	#14
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	Your recoil spring may be too weak, use the paper test on the back of your receiver to check this. If too weak the toggle will hit the rear of the frame too hard stressing the action this causes the toggle to slam forward too hard, when the bullet hits the ramp it jumps/bounces causing a jam Sometimes the stressing causes the front of the toggle to raise enough to not strip a new cartridge from the magazine. a mag that sits low or a well worn gun makes this more likely to happen. hope this helps-> good luck Vern

11-06-2009, 02:51 PM	#15
charon041 User Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Luger Problems Vern: Thanks for your suggestions. What is the "paper test" you refer to in your post? Thanks, Phil

11-16-2009, 10:23 AM	#16
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Phil, This sound like you need a WEAKER recoil spring. If that's not the problem, I would also check the "S" shaped connector link to your recoil system. If this gets bent, it may not allow full travel of your toggle assy. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

11-16-2009, 02:29 PM	#17
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,850 Thanked 3,100 Times in 1,426 Posts	Tom, I would also check the "S" shaped connector link to your recoil system. If this gets bent, it may not allow full travel of your toggle assy. TH This part is hardened to a brittle consistancy..Will it bend? Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

11-17-2009, 11:25 AM	#18
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Jerry, I have seen them bend out of shape and have also seen a few PO8s with the shorter M1900 link installed in error. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net