AA DWM

SteveM · 02-02-2002, 09:05 AM

Anyone care to comment on this one?

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?ItemNum=2312448

It looks to me to be a Police Sneak. Everything matches including the 1935 dated police holster.

SteveM

Thor · 02-02-2002, 09:28 AM

Strawing looks a little "new" to me! ~Thor~

Kyrie · 02-02-2002, 10:15 AM

Hi Steve,

I strongly suspect this one has been Ã¢??improved.Ã¢?Â Note the holster wear on the side plate without matching holster wear any place else. And I agree with Ted - the straw is a little too good to be true.

Best regards,

Kyrie

SteveM · 02-02-2002, 01:24 PM

I agree but that apparently hasn't deterred the first bidder.

Steve

Thor · 02-02-2002, 01:47 PM

A $1050 dollar package at best IMO! $400 for a Shooter Luger (looks altered to me) $150 a piece for each magazine, and another $400 MAX for that rare holster. $400 (Luger)+$300 (mags) + $350 (holster)=$1050 And that is assuming the mags and holster are authentic and unmessed with. AND.....that is assuming you REALLY want it! If the Luger was original and all truely matching I would add another $1000-$1500 to the value Matching and originality is of paramount importance! ~Thor~

Kyrie · 02-02-2002, 03:27 PM

Hi Steve,

It's always possible to pay too much for a Luger

Best regards,

Kyrie

Jay Newman · 02-02-2002, 03:37 PM

If this pistol was truly a 1920 Commercial, shouldn't the magazines have a wood base and be unnumbered? Best regards, Jay

Kyrie · 02-02-2002, 04:28 PM

Hi Folks,

On the subject of paying too much for a Luger, I had a little time today so I thought IÃ¢??d look over the last weekÃ¢??s worth of closed Luger auctions on Auction Arms. Here they are, with my thoughts on each. IÃ¢??ve divided these into three categories, the good the bad, and the ugly

THE GOOD

Luger -- 1915 DWM -- Item# 2256642

Sold at $775.00

The buyer got a nice deal on this one.

LUGER -- COMMERCIAL ARTILLERY -- Item# 2282452

Sold at $750.00

This one is hard to judge. If it's a mismatched reblue it was over priced by about $100. OTOH, if it is matching and has not been refinished the buyer got one heck of a deal, in spite of a ground stock lug.

THE BAD

1917 DWM Artillrery Luger -- Item# 2266013

Sold at $2,100.00

True value, maybe $1500.

9MM 1936 NAZI GERMAN LUGER S/42 -- Item# 2263687

$1,505.00

This is the one with the altered grip panel. The buyer paid five hundred dollars for the pistol and a thousand dollars for the story.

DWM -- MODEL 1906 .30luger cal. *A RARE FINE IN THIS CAL. -- Item# 2277842

No Bids, Starting Price: $900.00

Rebarreled and reblued Dutch Luger. Seller has been trying to sell this one for several weeks.

Luger -- German Luger Erfurt 1916 Model -- Item# 2275223

Last bid (reserve not met) $426.00

Mismatch and rebarreled to .30 Luger, value about $300 - $400.

LUGER 1918 COMMERCIAL CAL 9MM -- Item# 2278864

No Bids, Starting Price: $650.00

Reblue, value about $350 - $450.

THE UGLY

Luger, 1917, 9mm, unit marked, non-import -- Item# 2280354

No Bids, Starting Price: $525.00

Reblued. Seller writes, "This piece is all matching except for the proper wood bottom magazine."

He makes that statement in spite of the fact the number has been crudely ground off the take down latch, which has been reblued. IÃ¢??ll attach a photo...

Hope this is of some interest.

Best regards,

Kyrie

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/GroundTDLever.jpg

Thor · 02-02-2002, 04:33 PM

It is not a 1920 Commercial I dont think! It is a Weimar Era Police Luger, it has police mags, it has a sear safety. I think it is an Imperial Luger and perhaps was reworked for police work by Simson (S on the mags?) it is not a sneak because of the no late alphabet suffix and not sharp band Mauser type barrel. A Weimar rework Police Luger I think! Bill Munis is the expert on these! ~Thor~

Joe · 02-02-2002, 05:18 PM

Do you think that a "friend" of the seller might have made the first high bid on this "matched" police Luger? Thats an awlful lot of $$$ for this rig. This offering might be worth watching to see what it finally goes for.

Thor · 02-02-2002, 08:09 PM

That is a good trick! But I do believe there are those out there that will pay the inflated price out of excitement rather than out of knowledge. Thor

bill m · 02-02-2002, 10:15 PM

Hi Ted,

This is a Weimar Police Luger. Can't tell if it is a rework or of new manufacture from what I could tell from the pictures. Sunburst S is not Simson, but the police inspectors mark on the magazine base. Base would only have the 9000 and no letter suffix, so we do not know the full serial number. Wasn't able to see the full proof marks either so am not able to tell what exactly it is. Barrel bands could be either sharpe or rounded depending on the time frame and if reworked. Notice there is no slot for a magazine safety, which means it either was never added or reworked with the slot filled in. If reworked, it would be refinished at this time as would probably have been the straw. Holster, tool, and magazines look all correct to me. Need to actually look at the gun to tell more about the finish and straw.

02-02-2002, 11:57 PM

This thread seems to parallel the recent post asking that those who judge quote two recent sources and prices of like items for sale. I would find it interesting to have those "experts" who have posted in this thread provide photos, description and price they paid for a recent Luger purchase. This would give the rest of us a chance to see their expertise first hand. Of course we would not be allowed the use of an MRI, Xray or CAT scan which would limit our ability to judge their expertise.

Thor · 02-03-2002, 12:17 AM

Art, I posted on this thread and my post was certainly was a WAG on my part! I am not an expert by any means! I was just giving an opinion, not an expert opinion! ~Thor~

02-03-2002, 02:17 AM

I'm still looking for the $300 - $350 Lugers.

Thor · 02-03-2002, 02:27 AM

Bill, I have seen some okay ones at $350-$450 but they have gone to $500-$550 WHEN you can find them. Of the 18 or so on Ralph's list as shooters, only 2 remain UNSOLD. These average around $550 and when they sell that easy most of the cheaper ones get boasted in price. I think most of the Russian imports are being bought up and the prices are now climbing again for shooters. ~Thor~

02-03-2002, 03:04 AM

My point exactly, Thor. Kyrie (as much as I love my brother .45ACP Shanzi Broomhandle owner) is still talking about $300 and $350 shooters while all I see are shooters priced at $500 and up. Not that I really want any more shooters, but I would buy all I could find at $350 and sell them for $550. Sarco advertised some around the first of December in Shotgun News for $375. In the next issue they were up to $450, I think it was, and they have not been advertised at all since then. I should have bought a footlocker full when they were $375 - it looks like somebody did.

Marvin · 02-03-2002, 06:55 AM

Bill,

You are so right that we should have bought these import pistols when they were in the $350 range. I bought a couple of all matching import marked, dip blued for $450 several years ago. Thor has restored both back to original and they are beautiful. I would like to find some of the $350 pistols but the ones for sale in the SC, NC, GA guns shows are priced in the $500-800 range. Maybe we should invest in a couple of these and wait until the price goes up like Thor said.

Marvin

02-03-2002, 11:00 AM

Having seen a lot of "ugly" guns on this site, I am beginning to think L.U.G.E.R. sometimes stands for "Lotsa Ugly Guns Earning Returns"...

02-03-2002, 12:40 PM

No, it's Long Unappreciated German Exceptions and Rarities.

02-02-2002, 09:05 AM	#1
SteveM User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,016 Thanks: 94 Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts	AA DWM Anyone care to comment on this one? http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?ItemNum=2312448 It looks to me to be a Police Sneak. Everything matches including the 1935 dated police holster. SteveM

02-02-2002, 09:28 AM	#2
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: AA DWM Strawing looks a little "new" to me! ~Thor~

02-02-2002, 10:15 AM	#3
Kyrie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 757 Thanks: 0 Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts	Re: AA DWM Hi Steve, I strongly suspect this one has been Ã¢??improved.Ã¢?Â Note the holster wear on the side plate without matching holster wear any place else. And I agree with Ted - the straw is a little too good to be true. Best regards, Kyrie

02-02-2002, 01:24 PM	#4
SteveM User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,016 Thanks: 94 Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts	Re: AA DWM I agree but that apparently hasn't deterred the first bidder. Steve

02-02-2002, 01:47 PM	#5
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: AA DWM A $1050 dollar package at best IMO! $400 for a Shooter Luger (looks altered to me) $150 a piece for each magazine, and another $400 MAX for that rare holster. $400 (Luger)+$300 (mags) + $350 (holster)=$1050 And that is assuming the mags and holster are authentic and unmessed with. AND.....that is assuming you REALLY want it! If the Luger was original and all truely matching I would add another $1000-$1500 to the value Matching and originality is of paramount importance! ~Thor~

02-02-2002, 03:27 PM	#6
Kyrie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 757 Thanks: 0 Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts	Re: AA DWM Hi Steve, It's always possible to pay too much for a Luger Best regards, Kyrie

02-02-2002, 03:37 PM	#7
Jay Newman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Sequim, WA Posts: 38 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: AA DWM Question for Thor If this pistol was truly a 1920 Commercial, shouldn't the magazines have a wood base and be unnumbered? Best regards, Jay

02-02-2002, 04:28 PM	#8
Kyrie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 757 Thanks: 0 Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts	Speaking of paying too much.... Hi Folks, On the subject of paying too much for a Luger, I had a little time today so I thought IÃ¢??d look over the last weekÃ¢??s worth of closed Luger auctions on Auction Arms. Here they are, with my thoughts on each. IÃ¢??ve divided these into three categories, the good the bad, and the ugly THE GOOD Luger -- 1915 DWM -- Item# 2256642 Sold at $775.00 The buyer got a nice deal on this one. LUGER -- COMMERCIAL ARTILLERY -- Item# 2282452 Sold at $750.00 This one is hard to judge. If it's a mismatched reblue it was over priced by about $100. OTOH, if it is matching and has not been refinished the buyer got one heck of a deal, in spite of a ground stock lug. THE BAD 1917 DWM Artillrery Luger -- Item# 2266013 Sold at $2,100.00 True value, maybe $1500. 9MM 1936 NAZI GERMAN LUGER S/42 -- Item# 2263687 $1,505.00 This is the one with the altered grip panel. The buyer paid five hundred dollars for the pistol and a thousand dollars for the story. DWM -- MODEL 1906 .30luger cal. *A RARE FINE IN THIS CAL. -- Item# 2277842 No Bids, Starting Price: $900.00 Rebarreled and reblued Dutch Luger. Seller has been trying to sell this one for several weeks. Luger -- German Luger Erfurt 1916 Model -- Item# 2275223 Last bid (reserve not met) $426.00 Mismatch and rebarreled to .30 Luger, value about $300 - $400. LUGER 1918 COMMERCIAL CAL 9MM -- Item# 2278864 No Bids, Starting Price: $650.00 Reblue, value about $350 - $450. THE UGLY Luger, 1917, 9mm, unit marked, non-import -- Item# 2280354 No Bids, Starting Price: $525.00 Reblued. Seller writes, "This piece is all matching except for the proper wood bottom magazine." He makes that statement in spite of the fact the number has been crudely ground off the take down latch, which has been reblued. IÃ¢??ll attach a photo... Hope this is of some interest. Best regards, Kyrie http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/GroundTDLever.jpg

02-02-2002, 04:33 PM	#9
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: AA DWM Question for Thor It is not a 1920 Commercial I dont think! It is a Weimar Era Police Luger, it has police mags, it has a sear safety. I think it is an Imperial Luger and perhaps was reworked for police work by Simson (S on the mags?) it is not a sneak because of the no late alphabet suffix and not sharp band Mauser type barrel. A Weimar rework Police Luger I think! Bill Munis is the expert on these! ~Thor~

02-02-2002, 05:18 PM	#10
Joe User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 96 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: AA DWM Do you think that a "friend" of the seller might have made the first high bid on this "matched" police Luger? Thats an awlful lot of $$$ for this rig. This offering might be worth watching to see what it finally goes for.

02-02-2002, 08:09 PM	#11
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: AA DWM That is a good trick! But I do believe there are those out there that will pay the inflated price out of excitement rather than out of knowledge. Thor

02-02-2002, 10:15 PM	#12
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: AA DWM Question for Thor Hi Ted, This is a Weimar Police Luger. Can't tell if it is a rework or of new manufacture from what I could tell from the pictures. Sunburst S is not Simson, but the police inspectors mark on the magazine base. Base would only have the 9000 and no letter suffix, so we do not know the full serial number. Wasn't able to see the full proof marks either so am not able to tell what exactly it is. Barrel bands could be either sharpe or rounded depending on the time frame and if reworked. Notice there is no slot for a magazine safety, which means it either was never added or reworked with the slot filled in. If reworked, it would be refinished at this time as would probably have been the straw. Holster, tool, and magazines look all correct to me. Need to actually look at the gun to tell more about the finish and straw.

02-02-2002, 11:57 PM	#13
Art Buchanan Guest Posts: n/a	Re: AA DWM This thread seems to parallel the recent post asking that those who judge quote two recent sources and prices of like items for sale. I would find it interesting to have those "experts" who have posted in this thread provide photos, description and price they paid for a recent Luger purchase. This would give the rest of us a chance to see their expertise first hand. Of course we would not be allowed the use of an MRI, Xray or CAT scan which would limit our ability to judge their expertise.

02-03-2002, 12:17 AM	#14
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: AA DWM Art, I posted on this thread and my post was certainly was a WAG on my part! I am not an expert by any means! I was just giving an opinion, not an expert opinion! ~Thor~

02-03-2002, 02:17 AM	#15
Bill Utterback Guest Posts: n/a	Re: AA DWM I'm still looking for the $300 - $350 Lugers.

02-03-2002, 02:27 AM	#16
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: AA DWM Bill, I have seen some okay ones at $350-$450 but they have gone to $500-$550 WHEN you can find them. Of the 18 or so on Ralph's list as shooters, only 2 remain UNSOLD. These average around $550 and when they sell that easy most of the cheaper ones get boasted in price. I think most of the Russian imports are being bought up and the prices are now climbing again for shooters. ~Thor~

02-03-2002, 03:04 AM	#17
Bill Utterback Guest Posts: n/a	Re: AA DWM My point exactly, Thor. Kyrie (as much as I love my brother .45ACP Shanzi Broomhandle owner) is still talking about $300 and $350 shooters while all I see are shooters priced at $500 and up. Not that I really want any more shooters, but I would buy all I could find at $350 and sell them for $550. Sarco advertised some around the first of December in Shotgun News for $375. In the next issue they were up to $450, I think it was, and they have not been advertised at all since then. I should have bought a footlocker full when they were $375 - it looks like somebody did.

02-03-2002, 06:55 AM	#18
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: AA DWM Bill, You are so right that we should have bought these import pistols when they were in the $350 range. I bought a couple of all matching import marked, dip blued for $450 several years ago. Thor has restored both back to original and they are beautiful. I would like to find some of the $350 pistols but the ones for sale in the SC, NC, GA guns shows are priced in the $500-800 range. Maybe we should invest in a couple of these and wait until the price goes up like Thor said. Marvin

02-03-2002, 11:00 AM	#19
Wm. "Pete" Ebbink Guest Posts: n/a	Meaning of L.U.G.E.R. Having seen a lot of "ugly" guns on this site, I am beginning to think L.U.G.E.R. sometimes stands for "Lotsa Ugly Guns Earning Returns"...

02-03-2002, 12:40 PM	#20
Bill Utterback Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Meaning of L.U.G.E.R. No, it's Long Unappreciated German Exceptions and Rarities.