A Mystery Craftsman Among Us! - Page 2

Big Norm · 10-03-2002, 09:25 AM

I noticed two differences between an original and this fake that would distinguish this from an original. I will hold off because so many people are having fun guessing who did it. But I will give a teaser. One of the differences will prevent the holster from being both right AND left handed. The other difference is not the softness of the leather.
I have a few questions though. Did this person also make the wood grips and the metal attachments? I noticed the stand too. The Luger has the magazine in it. How did he make a stand like this without having to remove the magazine? I gotta look at the picture some more to see if there are more differences.
Big Norm

Big Norm · 10-03-2002, 09:47 AM

On examining my two originals, I MAY have to take back my teaser. But I found two other differences between an original and this fake. One is obvious and the other is more subtle. So my score is two obvious, one subtle and one maybe. My conclusion is that this rig can be easily distinguised from an original. But I would still like to know about the stand and the grips.
Big Norm

Big Norm · 10-03-2002, 10:48 AM

Opps! Gotta correct my last post and an email to John. After playing with my original, I realized that I had my iron stock extended. This mistakenly made me think that the nose of the repro holster was too long. So now I am reduced to two obvious differences and one maybe. Time to take a nap.
Big Norm

Pete Ebbink · 10-03-2002, 11:23 AM

Hello Norm,

Here is my thought on the magazine stand :

It is just a metal stand with a woodend magazine bottom cut in half, longitudinally, and then the wooden pieces glued to the bottom of the metal stand. Giving the look of a real magazine inserted into the grip frame...

Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

John Sabato · 10-03-2002, 02:02 PM

Here is your next hint... I admit it isn't much to go on, but this mystery has sparked a lot of interest...

Once upon a time there was a man who lived a quiet life, At times working in the environment of the "Past", or the "Future", Or, "On Some Days Both".

We'll see how many hints it takes to reveal his identity...

once again, Good luck!

schwob · 10-03-2002, 07:36 PM

I would like to congratulate Alain for his thought about Schwob having something to do with the magnificent creation.

I also thank John S. for his help. The genius that took the infinite time & patience to measure, seek out the materials, cut, bend, and assemble this labor of love will be brought to light, but I'll wager it will not be an easy undertaking trying to determine the quiet extremely skilled old world craftsman whose immeasurable talents created the "Phrend". I will not disclose his secret John will have that pleasure. I'm humbled that I could make a small contribution to this project. I wish everyone all the luck in trying to guess who the identity of "Der Meister".

[img]wink.gif[/img] [img]wink.gif[/img]

Alain · 10-04-2002, 06:18 AM

Schwob,

It is just visual memory and observation.
The pictures are a series declined after your previously posted pic of your Ideal rig.

The level of craftmanship in this achievement is truly remarkable.
Should your "Phrend" one day decide to make a few more of these Ideal tributes, then count me in; I really would be happy to "sponsor" one.

There was already plenty of wooden stocks (even if few good navy ones), now there could be reborn exotica.
A kind of repro or restoration that never alters a nice gun.

Rgds,

Alain

Alain · 10-04-2002, 07:30 AM

Alain,

I can edit all posts because I am the Site Admin (JS), but each member has the ability to edit their own posts by using the icon that looks like a pencil and paper...

As you can see I have edited this post and also corrected the spelling of Schwob's name for you.

John Sabato · 10-04-2002, 09:45 AM

Just wanted to let you all know that ten additional and even better photographs have been added to the album for this new Ideal Stock reproduction...

And Big Norm, the creator of the stock said to pass on to you that the stock IS fully capable of being either right or left handed...

If anyone wants to see a particular part of the stock close up for detail, all you have to do is post here what you would like to see and I am sure the owner will be glad to oblige and provide the new photos...

The next hints:

[img]smile.gif[/img] Only those who had part in this work knew of his efforts to fly with the birds or reach for the lights in nightÃ¢??s dark sky.

[img]smile.gif[/img] He was at home with the stars and among the creatures that fly in the day or on the darkest night.

[img]smile.gif[/img] His life was spent striving in the dark hours to make it possible that others may freely go to places that he could never reach.

Does that help anyone's memory about who the mystery craftsman might be?

Brandon · 10-04-2002, 10:12 AM

Is it RoadKill?

John Sabato · 10-04-2002, 11:16 AM

Nope! Not Roadkill, but he knows who it is! and he isn't the Shadow either... <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />

John D. · 10-04-2002, 11:22 AM

[quote]Originally posted by John Sabato:
 [img]smile.gif[/img] Only those who had part in this work knew of his efforts to fly with the birds or reach for the lights in nightÃ¢??s dark sky.<hr></blockquote>

Superman????

[quote]
[img]smile.gif[/img] He was at home with the stars and among the creatures that fly in the day or on the darkest night. <hr></blockquote>

Batman?

[quote] [img]smile.gif[/img] His life was spent striving in the dark hours to make it possible that others may freely go to places that he could never reach.<hr></blockquote>

Spiderman???

[quote] Does that help anyone's memory about who the mystery craftsman might be?<hr></blockquote>

Not in the least. [img]tongue.gif[/img] But, what part of the US does ViggoG live in???

Brandon · 10-04-2002, 11:43 AM

Bill Stanley prehaps?

Roadkill · 10-04-2002, 12:43 PM

http://www.gunsandammoauctions.com/a...p?Item=5614622
rk

John Sabato · 10-04-2002, 12:50 PM

Better Check the map Brandon... I don't think Bill Stanley lives east of the Mississippi... [img]frown.gif[/img]

Now I am going to make it a little tougher... When you guess you have to give a reason why you think it is the person you are suggesting... [img]smile.gif[/img]

John Sabato · 10-04-2002, 12:54 PM

RK, that gun has been for sale for a long time... and it is not the one used as the example... It doesn't look anywhere near as good as Bob Spitzer's (Schwob) AE and Ideal Stock...

Edward Tinker · 10-04-2002, 12:55 PM

Hey, I sent Bill a PM earlier in the week. Was wondering about the guy, haven't heard" from him for a while, hope he is okay!
[img]smile.gif[/img]

John D. · 10-04-2002, 01:06 PM

[quote]Originally posted by John Sabato:
... When you guess you have to give a reason why you think it is the person you are suggesting... [img]smile.gif[/img] <hr></blockquote>

Oh - I forgot that part in my post!!! OK, your "hints" - or the way I interpreted them - made me believe the "Mystery Guest" had something to do with either space or rocket construction or NASA - well - whatever... Anyway, I remember what I read for quite a while (it's an occupational hazard being a computer market research analyst [img]wink.gif[/img] ) and I seem to recall that ViggoG made some comments on the old board about when he was involved with metallurgy in rocket construction... Or, I thought that was ViggoG - but I don't know where he hails from (so I asked his location..!)..

Sooo - now you know my thought process in my guess..!!!

John Sabato · 10-04-2002, 01:06 PM

I will try a direct email because Bill hasn't posted since July 27th and that is a long time for him...

Brandon · 10-04-2002, 01:39 PM

[quote]Originally posted by John Sabato:
Better Check the map Brandon... I don't think Bill Stanley lives east of the Mississippi... [img]frown.gif[/img]

Now I am going to make it a little tougher... When you guess you have to give a reason why you think it is the person you are suggesting... [img]smile.gif[/img] <hr></blockquote>

Ooops! I just knew his e-mail address had Boeing in it!

10-03-2002, 02:02 PM	#25
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Here is your next hint... I admit it isn't much to go on, but this mystery has sparked a lot of interest... Once upon a time there was a man who lived a quiet life, At times working in the environment of the "Past", or the "Future", Or, "On Some Days Both". We'll see how many hints it takes to reveal his identity... once again, Good luck! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-04-2002, 09:45 AM	#29
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Just wanted to let you all know that ten additional and even better photographs have been added to the album for this new Ideal Stock reproduction... And Big Norm, the creator of the stock said to pass on to you that the stock IS fully capable of being either right or left handed... If anyone wants to see a particular part of the stock close up for detail, all you have to do is post here what you would like to see and I am sure the owner will be glad to oblige and provide the new photos... The next hints: [img]smile.gif[/img] Only those who had part in this work knew of his efforts to fly with the birds or reach for the lights in nightÃ¢??s dark sky. [img]smile.gif[/img] He was at home with the stars and among the creatures that fly in the day or on the darkest night. [img]smile.gif[/img] His life was spent striving in the dark hours to make it possible that others may freely go to places that he could never reach. Does that help anyone's memory about who the mystery craftsman might be? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-04-2002, 11:16 AM	#31
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Nope! Not Roadkill, but he knows who it is! and he isn't the Shadow either... <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-04-2002, 11:22 AM	#32
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 471 Thanked 513 Times in 127 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by John Sabato: <strong> [img]smile.gif[/img] Only those who had part in this work knew of his efforts to fly with the birds or reach for the lights in nightÃ¢??s dark sky.</strong><hr></blockquote> Superman???? [quote]<strong> [img]smile.gif[/img] He was at home with the stars and among the creatures that fly in the day or on the darkest night. </strong><hr></blockquote> Batman? [quote]<strong> [img]smile.gif[/img] His life was spent striving in the dark hours to make it possible that others may freely go to places that he could never reach.</strong><hr></blockquote> Spiderman??? [quote]<strong> Does that help anyone's memory about who the mystery craftsman might be?</strong><hr></blockquote> Not in the least. [img]tongue.gif[/img] But, what part of the US does ViggoG live in???

10-04-2002, 12:50 PM	#35
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Better Check the map Brandon... I don't think Bill Stanley lives east of the Mississippi... [img]frown.gif[/img] Now I am going to make it a little tougher... When you guess you have to give a reason why you think it is the person you are suggesting... [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-03-2002, 09:25 AM	#21
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	I noticed two differences between an original and this fake that would distinguish this from an original. I will hold off because so many people are having fun guessing who did it. But I will give a teaser. One of the differences will prevent the holster from being both right AND left handed. The other difference is not the softness of the leather. I have a few questions though. Did this person also make the wood grips and the metal attachments? I noticed the stand too. The Luger has the magazine in it. How did he make a stand like this without having to remove the magazine? I gotta look at the picture some more to see if there are more differences. Big Norm

10-03-2002, 09:47 AM	#22
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	On examining my two originals, I MAY have to take back my teaser. But I found two other differences between an original and this fake. One is obvious and the other is more subtle. So my score is two obvious, one subtle and one maybe. My conclusion is that this rig can be easily distinguised from an original. But I would still like to know about the stand and the grips. Big Norm

10-03-2002, 10:48 AM	#23
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Opps! Gotta correct my last post and an email to John. After playing with my original, I realized that I had my iron stock extended. This mistakenly made me think that the nose of the repro holster was too long. So now I am reduced to two obvious differences and one maybe. Time to take a nap. Big Norm

10-03-2002, 11:23 AM	#24
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Norm, Here is my thought on the magazine stand : It is just a metal stand with a woodend magazine bottom cut in half, longitudinally, and then the wooden pieces glued to the bottom of the metal stand. Giving the look of a real magazine inserted into the grip frame... Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

10-03-2002, 07:36 PM	#26
schwob RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Coast of Maine Posts: 273 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I would like to congratulate Alain for his thought about Schwob having something to do with the magnificent creation. I also thank John S. for his help. The genius that took the infinite time & patience to measure, seek out the materials, cut, bend, and assemble this labor of love will be brought to light, but I'll wager it will not be an easy undertaking trying to determine the quiet extremely skilled old world craftsman whose immeasurable talents created the "Phrend". I will not disclose his secret John will have that pleasure. I'm humbled that I could make a small contribution to this project. I wish everyone all the luck in trying to guess who the identity of "Der Meister". [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]wink.gif[/img]

10-04-2002, 06:18 AM	#27
Alain Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: france Posts: 42 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Schwob, It is just visual memory and observation. The pictures are a series declined after your previously posted pic of your Ideal rig. The level of craftmanship in this achievement is truly remarkable. Should your "Phrend" one day decide to make a few more of these Ideal tributes, then count me in; I really would be happy to "sponsor" one. There was already plenty of wooden stocks (even if few good navy ones), now there could be reborn exotica. A kind of repro or restoration that never alters a nice gun. Rgds, Alain

10-04-2002, 07:30 AM	#28
Alain Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: france Posts: 42 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Alain, I can edit all posts because I am the Site Admin (JS), but each member has the ability to edit their own posts by using the icon that looks like a pencil and paper... As you can see I have edited this post and also corrected the spelling of Schwob's name for you.

10-04-2002, 10:12 AM	#30
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Is it RoadKill?

10-04-2002, 11:43 AM	#33
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Bill Stanley prehaps?

10-04-2002, 12:43 PM	#34
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	http://www.gunsandammoauctions.com/a...p?Item=5614622 rk

10-04-2002, 12:54 PM	#36
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	RK, that gun has been for sale for a long time... and it is not the one used as the example... It doesn't look anywhere near as good as Bob Spitzer's (Schwob) AE and Ideal Stock... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-04-2002, 12:55 PM	#37
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Hey, I sent Bill a PM earlier in the week. Was wondering about the guy, haven't heard" from him for a while, hope he is okay! [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-04-2002, 01:06 PM	#38
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 471 Thanked 513 Times in 127 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by John Sabato: <strong>... When you guess you have to give a reason why you think it is the person you are suggesting... [img]smile.gif[/img] </strong><hr></blockquote> Oh - I forgot that part in my post!!! OK, your "hints" - or the way I interpreted them - made me believe the "Mystery Guest" had something to do with either space or rocket construction or NASA - well - whatever... Anyway, I remember what I read for quite a while (it's an occupational hazard being a computer market research analyst [img]wink.gif[/img] ) and I seem to recall that ViggoG made some comments on the old board about when he was involved with metallurgy in rocket construction... Or, I thought that was ViggoG - but I don't know where he hails from (so I asked his location..!).. Sooo - now you know my thought process in my guess..!!!

10-04-2002, 01:39 PM	#40
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by John Sabato: <strong>Better Check the map Brandon... I don't think Bill Stanley lives east of the Mississippi... [img]frown.gif[/img] Now I am going to make it a little tougher... When you guess you have to give a reason why you think it is the person you are suggesting... [img]smile.gif[/img] </strong><hr></blockquote> Ooops! I just knew his e-mail address had Boeing in it!