US Test: Bannerman Sale Records - Page 2

cirelaw · 03-05-2011, 01:30 PM

Clart I think this part of history is facinating. Do we know who supplied the takedown tooks. Were the made by DWM and shiped with the guns? Where any technical training charts or manual printed or surplied?

Hugo Borchardt · 03-05-2011, 02:05 PM

Eric:

I haven't seen actual records, but Reese (U.S. Test Trials/1900 Luger p.27) states that:

The pistols and magazines, along with accessories (cleaning rods, pin punches and takedown tools) were shipped to Governor Island, New York.

So I guess so! Since the test holster has no accommodation for cleaning rod, extra mag, punch or takedown tool, I guess it is no wonder we don't see these as they were scattered who knows where.

Clark

Clark

cirelaw · 03-05-2011, 02:19 PM

From the same time evidencing the markings J.M.G. initualed

cirelaw · 03-05-2011, 02:48 PM

Datig states on p67 The BOF approved the recommendations contained in the test report and directed that steps should be taken to carry them out,1000 pistols of identical deseign to the test samples. and 200,000 rounds of ammunition to be purchased from DWM, Berlin, $15,00 was allocated from available funds for this purchase. The pistols and ammunition were to be delivered to New Yorks' Arsenal Governors' Island, New York City. They were to be fowarded to Springfield Armory for acceptance. The pistols were to be distributed 5 per troop of calvery and 100 were to be retained for test by Light Artillery troops, issue to officers at West Point, and for general experimentation......On April 15, 1901 The Commanding Officer of Springfield Armory was officially directed to make the purchase. The Possibility of Frankfurt Arsenal manufacturing the ammunition haveing been ruled out.Rock Island Arsenalmwas directed to fabricate a sufficiant quanty of russet or black leather holsters, and it is beleived, a sufficient of hardened steel combination tools. Tauscher supplied samples for use in designed holsters, p68

Hugo Borchardt · 03-05-2011, 03:01 PM

Nice photos. That cartridge box is in much nicer condition than mine.

I need a copy of Fred Datig's book and also a copy of Meadows book.

You also asked if any documentation was provided. I thought I read somewhere they came with a short manual, but I can't find the reference. I believe another forum member offered to sell me an extra original copy one time and I neglected to take him up on it.

Clark

cirelaw · 03-05-2011, 03:30 PM

I can lend you his blue hardbound. Its where all his update and revision are included!

Ron Wood · 03-05-2011, 04:25 PM

Meadows book is the most comprehensive reference available IMO.

cirelaw · 03-05-2011, 04:39 PM

Ron I would like to find a copy! What title should I look for?

cirelaw · 03-05-2011, 04:52 PM

Ron I just found some really great research and information that You and Jan have already published and are right at our laps. I know of no better sources anywhere. All one has to do is use the 'searh' option for test luger/ holster. I am very proud to walk in Your shadows. It is definitly time for a singular source/book to add it all up!!!

Ron Wood · 03-05-2011, 05:40 PM

Edward Scott Meadows, U.S. Military Automatic Pistols 1894-1920, ISBN Number 0-9618191-4

cirelaw · 03-05-2011, 05:42 PM

Thank Ron, How many are you up to +/ or minus?

Ron Wood · 03-05-2011, 05:53 PM

How many of what? If you mean recorded Test Luger serial numbers, see my earlier post in this same thread.

cirelaw · 03-05-2011, 06:52 PM

Yes and Yes, I must commend You and your devotion!!

cirelaw · 04-12-2011, 06:00 PM

I had to take a peek! Heres a beautiful thing!#6786

Hugo Borchardt · 04-12-2011, 08:48 PM

Eric:

Thanks for the excellent photos of an excellent example! Responded to your PM!

Clark

nukem556 · 04-12-2011, 09:45 PM

has #6786 been refinished? I thought the frame under the grips and the bottom of the extension rails should be white

cirelaw · 04-12-2011, 09:49 PM

Nope she a virgin! Ill post the 2 vertal lines under the toggle tommorow.

wlyon · 04-13-2011, 06:40 PM

Yes The inside rails etc should be in the white. If not it has been reblued. Bill

cirelaw · 04-13-2011, 06:55 PM

Bare to the bone!

cirelaw · 04-13-2011, 07:23 PM

Almost identical

03-05-2011, 02:05 PM	#22
Hugo Borchardt User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 370 Thanks: 338 Thanked 131 Times in 47 Posts	Eric: I haven't seen actual records, but Reese (U.S. Test Trials/1900 Luger p.27) states that: The pistols and magazines, along with accessories (cleaning rods, pin punches and takedown tools) were shipped to Governor Island, New York. So I guess so! Since the test holster has no accommodation for cleaning rod, extra mag, punch or takedown tool, I guess it is no wonder we don't see these as they were scattered who knows where. Clark Clark __________________ My militaria collection is dedicated to the memory of my Grandfather, Marine Gunnery Sergeant Dave Hill, Jr., wounded in action at The Assault of the Second Marine Division on Betio Island, Tarawa Atoll, 20-23 November, 1943. http://www.tarawa1943.com/pages/casualties%20tarawa.htm

03-05-2011, 02:19 PM	#23
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	A rock Island Ammo Pouch From the same time evidencing the markings J.M.G. initualed Attached Thumbnails

03-05-2011, 03:01 PM	#25
Hugo Borchardt User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 370 Thanks: 338 Thanked 131 Times in 47 Posts	Nice photos. That cartridge box is in much nicer condition than mine. I need a copy of Fred Datig's book and also a copy of Meadows book. You also asked if any documentation was provided. I thought I read somewhere they came with a short manual, but I can't find the reference. I believe another forum member offered to sell me an extra original copy one time and I neglected to take him up on it. Clark __________________ My militaria collection is dedicated to the memory of my Grandfather, Marine Gunnery Sergeant Dave Hill, Jr., wounded in action at The Assault of the Second Marine Division on Betio Island, Tarawa Atoll, 20-23 November, 1943. http://www.tarawa1943.com/pages/casualties%20tarawa.htm

03-05-2011, 04:25 PM	#27
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Meadows book is the most comprehensive reference available IMO. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

03-05-2011, 05:40 PM	#30
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Edward Scott Meadows, U.S. Military Automatic Pistols 1894-1920, ISBN Number 0-9618191-4 Attached Thumbnails __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

03-05-2011, 01:30 PM	#21
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Clart I think this part of history is facinating. Do we know who supplied the takedown tooks. Were the made by DWM and shiped with the guns? Where any technical training charts or manual printed or surplied?

03-05-2011, 02:48 PM	#24
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Datig states on p67 The BOF approved the recommendations contained in the test report and directed that steps should be taken to carry them out,1000 pistols of identical deseign to the test samples. and 200,000 rounds of ammunition to be purchased from DWM, Berlin, $15,00 was allocated from available funds for this purchase. The pistols and ammunition were to be delivered to New Yorks' Arsenal Governors' Island, New York City. They were to be fowarded to Springfield Armory for acceptance. The pistols were to be distributed 5 per troop of calvery and 100 were to be retained for test by Light Artillery troops, issue to officers at West Point, and for general experimentation......On April 15, 1901 The Commanding Officer of Springfield Armory was officially directed to make the purchase. The Possibility of Frankfurt Arsenal manufacturing the ammunition haveing been ruled out.Rock Island Arsenalmwas directed to fabricate a sufficiant quanty of russet or black leather holsters, and it is beleived, a sufficient of hardened steel combination tools. Tauscher supplied samples for use in designed holsters, p68

03-05-2011, 03:30 PM	#26
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	I can lend you his blue hardbound. Its where all his update and revision are included!

03-05-2011, 04:39 PM	#28
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Ron I would like to find a copy! What title should I look for?

03-05-2011, 04:52 PM	#29
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Ron I just found some really great research and information that You and Jan have already published and are right at our laps. I know of no better sources anywhere. All one has to do is use the 'searh' option for test luger/ holster. I am very proud to walk in Your shadows. It is definitly time for a singular source/book to add it all up!!!

03-05-2011, 05:42 PM	#31
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Thank Ron, How many are you up to +/ or minus?

03-05-2011, 05:53 PM	#32
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	How many of what? If you mean recorded Test Luger serial numbers, see my earlier post in this same thread. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

03-05-2011, 06:52 PM	#33
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Yes and Yes, I must commend You and your devotion!!

04-12-2011, 06:00 PM	#34
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	I had to take a peek! Heres a beautiful thing!#6786 Attached Thumbnails

04-12-2011, 08:48 PM	#35
Hugo Borchardt User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 370 Thanks: 338 Thanked 131 Times in 47 Posts	Eric: Thanks for the excellent photos of an excellent example! Responded to your PM! Clark __________________ My militaria collection is dedicated to the memory of my Grandfather, Marine Gunnery Sergeant Dave Hill, Jr., wounded in action at The Assault of the Second Marine Division on Betio Island, Tarawa Atoll, 20-23 November, 1943. http://www.tarawa1943.com/pages/casualties%20tarawa.htm

04-12-2011, 09:45 PM	#36
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	has #6786 been refinished? I thought the frame under the grips and the bottom of the extension rails should be white

04-12-2011, 09:49 PM	#37
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Nope she a virgin! Ill post the 2 vertal lines under the toggle tommorow. Attached Thumbnails

04-13-2011, 06:40 PM	#38
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,614 Thanks: 3,140 Thanked 2,519 Times in 939 Posts	Yes The inside rails etc should be in the white. If not it has been reblued. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

04-13-2011, 06:55 PM	#39
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Yep Bare to the bone! Attached Thumbnails

04-13-2011, 07:23 PM	#40
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	A 1906 frech and the 1900 test frame Almost identical Attached Thumbnails