1900 AE rear dovetailed site

hqbmw · 01-24-2006, 06:42 PM

C:\Documents and Settings\jack hiles\My Documents\My Pictures\Luger AmEagle\DSC00009.JPGerican Eagle\DSC00010.JPG

Hi All,

This is my first attempt at posting pictures to the Forum. Please accept my apologies if this doesn't work the first time. I really want to share my P-code Krieghoff with you, but thought I would start on something a bit more simple.

The two images I have (hopefully) uploaded are of the rear site of my recently acquired 1900 AE. As you san see, the site has been dovetailed for an element that is parallel to the bore; NOT perpendicular! Has anybody ever encountered this and if so where and when? I have found information that points toward the Swiss utilizing this method of changing sites.

Thanks in advance,
Jack Hiles
Mesa AZ
480 219 6676

Edward Tinker · 01-24-2006, 07:00 PM

Jack, you can upload one at a time, or you can look upper right corner and upload one at a time, copy the url it gives you, paste it into the reply area dn upload a 2nd, 3rd etc,

ed

John Sabato · 01-24-2006, 11:13 PM

Sorry Jack,

I have never seen anything like the modification of the rear toggle you have posted. It looks post manufacture to me... There is no way to attach anything to it... do you have a photo of the whole gun? are all the part numbers matching?

hqbmw · 01-25-2006, 12:29 AM

John,

All numbers match except the trigger which is a grooved OE thin trigger. The gun is beautiful in all respects. I will upload some more pictures. It has a thin 6" barrel in 7.65. It is very interesting in that the dovetail looks original or at least professional and the front site is missing. I have a front site for it that will need refinishing before installation.

The only other unusual item is the breech block axel which is strawed, not blued and the eagle is polished to a point that it has very little depth.

Jack Hiles
Mesa AZ

Lugerdoc · 01-25-2006, 08:04 AM

John, With the widening and lowering of the rear sight apeture and the missing front sight blade, one would assume that someone with impaired vision was using the front sight base as his sight. TH

Herb · 01-25-2006, 04:03 PM

Just a thought, there was a few Luger night sights around, had a strange name that escapes me right now, something like a cataract or the like. Could it be for one of those.

Ron Wood · 01-25-2006, 04:20 PM

Herb,
You are thinking of the Sudicatis night sight. It was a "kit" consisting of a rear and front sight that had radium inserts. It only fit on a LP08 and did not require any modification to the gun.

(Noticed your "survivor" patch. I arrived in Viet Nam during Tet 1967 and left during Tet of 1968. Interesting year.)

Herb · 01-25-2006, 04:38 PM

I knew it had something to do with a cat. I got to VN June 7 67 and left June 8 68. Was initially assigned to A/1/5/ 1st Cav up in the Bong Son plains area and a few months later went TDY to Phan Rang and trained S Viet forces, the popular forces platoons and Regional Force companies in American weapons and tactics. It was the first phase of the so called 'Americanization' of Vietnam. I was downtown Phan Rang in civvies having lunch with the family of my interpreter at his house when the $hit hit the fan. No weapon in hand and about a mile from the compound, I think I set a new worlds record for completing the mile run. lol.

01-25-2006, 04:56 PM

I was also in VN July 67 to July 68. I was on R and R in Hawaii when Tet started and got back in county during the middle of Tet. It took a few helicopter rides to get back to my unit.

Herb · 01-25-2006, 05:34 PM

Ron, Richard, and others feel free to take the patch and use it, it'd be neat to see how many will show up here, I stole it off of a Marine site.

Rod WMG · 01-25-2006, 05:37 PM

Jack, how does this sight compare to a normal one so far as height is concerened? Will you have to modify the height of the front sight?

hqbmw · 01-25-2006, 07:07 PM

C:\Documents and Settings\jack hiles\My Documents\My Pictures\Luger AC:\Documents and Settings\jack hiles\My Documents\My Pictures\Luger AmC:\Documents and Settings\jack hiles\My Documents\My Pictures\Luger American Eagle\DSC00017.JPGerican Eagle\DSC00012.JPGmerican Eagle\DSC00045.JPGC:\Documents and Settings\jack hiles\My Documents\My Pictures\Luger American Eagle\DSC00041.JPG

hqbmw · 01-25-2006, 07:10 PM

Well THAT obviously didn't work. I'll try again to give you some images of my AE. Ithen hope to do a documentary on the magnificent HK P 59 I acquired.

Jack

John Sabato · 01-25-2006, 08:07 PM

Jack, there is a tutorial on posting photos in the Site Help and Feedback forum at the top... it was written by Ed Tinker and has walked many a member through the mystery of posting images in their responses... Good Luck.

hqbmw · 01-26-2006, 05:20 PM

John,

Had a bit more time today and found JD"s tutorial. i thought I had done the same thing with the previous attempt, but will follow the directions very closely.

hqbmw · 01-26-2006, 05:50 PM

As you can see by comparing both images, the space is a classic dovetail that would hold in an element by an interference fit. All I took were images of the dovetail in question. I will now take and submit more images of the entire gun.
A little more information on the gun itself: it is a 1900 AE with all matching except for the previous references. I have received mixed opinions about wether it is refinished. I do know that I think it was refinished and done to a very high degree of expertise. It has only the S/N (9220) over Germany except for the commercial style of serial numbering. It has NO proofmarks on the right side or anywhere at all. It has a 150mm very slim tapered barrel that is totally unmarked, but has witness marks.

Jerry Burney has handled the gun extensively and is a far better reference that myself. I am young to this Luger collecting, but am very devoted to something that I expect will continue my remaining life. I do READ all the books I can get my hands on as opposed to the manley thing of looking only at the pictures (especially the centerfold.)

At any rate, my intent here is to try to piece together to the best of my ability what exactly this gun is or has been in its past. It is far too beautiful to have been a test piece, but could well have had experimenting with the sites as they are both missing on an otherwise pristine gun. I will take some more images and upload them by tomorrow.

Thanks for my rattling on,
Jack Hiles
Mesa AZ
480 219 6676

hqbmw · 01-26-2006, 05:52 PM

Top view

hqbmw · 01-26-2006, 05:55 PM

Toggle

hqbmw · 01-26-2006, 05:56 PM

Lt quarter view

hqbmw · 01-26-2006, 05:57 PM

Serial number

01-24-2006, 06:42 PM	#1
hqbmw User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mesa AZ Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1900 AE rear dovetailed site C:\Documents and Settings\jack hiles\My Documents\My Pictures\Luger AmEagle\DSC00009.JPGerican Eagle\DSC00010.JPG Hi All, This is my first attempt at posting pictures to the Forum. Please accept my apologies if this doesn't work the first time. I really want to share my P-code Krieghoff with you, but thought I would start on something a bit more simple. The two images I have (hopefully) uploaded are of the rear site of my recently acquired 1900 AE. As you san see, the site has been dovetailed for an element that is parallel to the bore; NOT perpendicular! Has anybody ever encountered this and if so where and when? I have found information that points toward the Swiss utilizing this method of changing sites. Thanks in advance, Jack Hiles Mesa AZ 480 219 6676 Attached Thumbnails

01-24-2006, 07:00 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Jack, you can upload one at a time, or you can look upper right corner and upload one at a time, copy the url it gives you, paste it into the reply area dn upload a 2nd, 3rd etc, ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-24-2006, 11:13 PM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Sorry Jack, I have never seen anything like the modification of the rear toggle you have posted. It looks post manufacture to me... There is no way to attach anything to it... do you have a photo of the whole gun? are all the part numbers matching? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-25-2006, 12:29 AM	#4
hqbmw User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mesa AZ Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	John, All numbers match except the trigger which is a grooved OE thin trigger. The gun is beautiful in all respects. I will upload some more pictures. It has a thin 6" barrel in 7.65. It is very interesting in that the dovetail looks original or at least professional and the front site is missing. I have a front site for it that will need refinishing before installation. The only other unusual item is the breech block axel which is strawed, not blued and the eagle is polished to a point that it has very little depth. Jack Hiles Mesa AZ __________________ Jack Hiles Mesa AZ

01-25-2006, 08:04 AM	#5
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	John, With the widening and lowering of the rear sight apeture and the missing front sight blade, one would assume that someone with impaired vision was using the front sight base as his sight. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

01-25-2006, 04:03 PM	#6
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Just a thought, there was a few Luger night sights around, had a strange name that escapes me right now, something like a cataract or the like. Could it be for one of those. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

01-25-2006, 04:20 PM	#7
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Herb, You are thinking of the Sudicatis night sight. It was a "kit" consisting of a rear and front sight that had radium inserts. It only fit on a LP08 and did not require any modification to the gun. (Noticed your "survivor" patch. I arrived in Viet Nam during Tet 1967 and left during Tet of 1968. Interesting year.) __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-25-2006, 04:38 PM	#8
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I knew it had something to do with a cat. I got to VN June 7 67 and left June 8 68. Was initially assigned to A/1/5/ 1st Cav up in the Bong Son plains area and a few months later went TDY to Phan Rang and trained S Viet forces, the popular forces platoons and Regional Force companies in American weapons and tactics. It was the first phase of the so called 'Americanization' of Vietnam. I was downtown Phan Rang in civvies having lunch with the family of my interpreter at his house when the $hit hit the fan. No weapon in hand and about a mile from the compound, I think I set a new worlds record for completing the mile run. lol. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

01-25-2006, 04:56 PM	#9
RGARRETT Guest Posts: n/a	I was also in VN July 67 to July 68. I was on R and R in Hawaii when Tet started and got back in county during the middle of Tet. It took a few helicopter rides to get back to my unit.

01-25-2006, 05:34 PM	#10
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Ron, Richard, and others feel free to take the patch and use it, it'd be neat to see how many will show up here, I stole it off of a Marine site. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

01-25-2006, 05:37 PM	#11
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Jack, how does this sight compare to a normal one so far as height is concerened? Will you have to modify the height of the front sight?

01-25-2006, 07:07 PM	#12
hqbmw User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mesa AZ Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1900 AE pictures C:\Documents and Settings\jack hiles\My Documents\My Pictures\Luger AC:\Documents and Settings\jack hiles\My Documents\My Pictures\Luger AmC:\Documents and Settings\jack hiles\My Documents\My Pictures\Luger American Eagle\DSC00017.JPGerican Eagle\DSC00012.JPGmerican Eagle\DSC00045.JPGC:\Documents and Settings\jack hiles\My Documents\My Pictures\Luger American Eagle\DSC00041.JPG

01-25-2006, 07:10 PM	#13
hqbmw User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mesa AZ Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Well THAT obviously didn't work. I'll try again to give you some images of my AE. Ithen hope to do a documentary on the magnificent HK P 59 I acquired. Jack __________________ Jack Hiles Mesa AZ

01-25-2006, 08:07 PM	#14
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Jack, there is a tutorial on posting photos in the Site Help and Feedback forum at the top... it was written by Ed Tinker and has walked many a member through the mystery of posting images in their responses... Good Luck. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-26-2006, 05:20 PM	#15
hqbmw User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mesa AZ Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	John, Had a bit more time today and found JD"s tutorial. i thought I had done the same thing with the previous attempt, but will follow the directions very closely. Attached Thumbnails

01-26-2006, 05:50 PM	#16
hqbmw User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mesa AZ Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	As you can see by comparing both images, the space is a classic dovetail that would hold in an element by an interference fit. All I took were images of the dovetail in question. I will now take and submit more images of the entire gun. A little more information on the gun itself: it is a 1900 AE with all matching except for the previous references. I have received mixed opinions about wether it is refinished. I do know that I think it was refinished and done to a very high degree of expertise. It has only the S/N (9220) over Germany except for the commercial style of serial numbering. It has NO proofmarks on the right side or anywhere at all. It has a 150mm very slim tapered barrel that is totally unmarked, but has witness marks. Jerry Burney has handled the gun extensively and is a far better reference that myself. I am young to this Luger collecting, but am very devoted to something that I expect will continue my remaining life. I do READ all the books I can get my hands on as opposed to the manley thing of looking only at the pictures (especially the centerfold.) At any rate, my intent here is to try to piece together to the best of my ability what exactly this gun is or has been in its past. It is far too beautiful to have been a test piece, but could well have had experimenting with the sites as they are both missing on an otherwise pristine gun. I will take some more images and upload them by tomorrow. Thanks for my rattling on, Jack Hiles Mesa AZ 480 219 6676 __________________ Jack Hiles Mesa AZ

01-26-2006, 05:52 PM	#17
hqbmw User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mesa AZ Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Top view Attached Thumbnails

01-26-2006, 05:55 PM	#18
hqbmw User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mesa AZ Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Toggle Attached Thumbnails

01-26-2006, 05:56 PM	#19
hqbmw User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mesa AZ Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Lt quarter view Attached Thumbnails

01-26-2006, 05:57 PM	#20
hqbmw User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mesa AZ Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Serial number Attached Thumbnails