Colt Army Special 38 - WHAT .38?

montenegrin · 10-08-2004, 05:13 PM

Hello all,
in a sales catalog I saw a Colt revolver marked COLT ARMY SPECIAL 38, vintage of c.1919, hard rubber grips. Does this inscription on the barrel mean that the caliber is .38 Special, or is it possible that the revolver is chambered for some other .38 caliber, such as 38 Long Colt or .38 S&W?
Thank you,
montenegrin

Stevie · 10-10-2004, 03:05 PM

I looked that model up in my Gun Traders Guide, and they list it as chambered in .32-20, .38 Special and .41 Colt. Made from 1908-1927. Also says not to use .38 Special high velocity loads (+P). I traded for a 1953 vintage Colt Police Positive Special in .38 special a few weeks ago, and really like it. Its quite a bit smaller gun than an Army special.

Stevie.

Russ · 10-10-2004, 07:08 PM

I had one in 32-20. It was a fun gun to shoot. But the a frend with a luger liked it more than I did. I enjoy the luger more than I did the Colt.

Russ

montenegrin · 10-14-2004, 11:23 AM

Thanks. The "Blue Book" says, ...38 cal. (various)... so I'm still not sure what cartridge does it take. Where I live only 38 Special is available so any other 38 is out of question for me.

John Sabato · 10-14-2004, 11:34 AM

I may be wrong on this, and anyone with the facts is welcome to chime in and provide better information, but I believe that this model Colt in .38 special was standard Army issue (successor to the Colt Single Action) when the Phillipine Insurrection began. It's poor performance on rebels charged with adrenelin and possible drugs (when used with ammunition of the day) led to the Testing and adoption of the .45 ACP M1911 as a better manstopper...

Anyone got any better or documented history on this subject?

montenegrin · 10-14-2004, 03:00 PM

During the Phillipine Insurrection the standard Army issue revolver was Colt M1892 DA in 38 Long Colt, which proved insufficient. Some old 45 SA Colts were issued, and in 1909 Colt New Service 45 DA was adopted as an interrim measure before adopting Colt M1911 Auto 45.

John Sabato · 10-14-2004, 03:11 PM

montenegrin,

Thanks very much for the updated history lesson... I remembered that the transition from a .38 caliber to .45 ACP took place, but got my details on the model numbers confused... quite a few cobwebs in this old head!...

montenegrin · 10-14-2004, 03:58 PM

You are very welcome, John. By the way, Colt Army Special 38 was never Army issue in the USA, but saw military service elsewhere, such as in Greece, and even in Austria-Hungary (one of the substitute standard handguns during WW1).
Colt Army special transformed to Colt Official Police c.1929.
Regards, Jani

Edward Tinker · 10-14-2004, 05:16 PM

I don't know about the Colt Army Special 38 as not being USA issue, but I can guarantee that the 38 Special was. We had S&W model 10's and then later Ruger 38's and had them through Vietnam and until the 9mm replaced it.

Of course, I am sure you said Colt Army Special 38 for a reason and not just 38 Special... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Ed

montenegrin · 10-14-2004, 05:39 PM

To the point. Some 38 special revolvers (I belive S&W) saw limited US service (I think with the Marine Corps) in the early 1900s. It is also well known that Colt made "Commando" version of its Official Police during WWII. In about 1974 I remember seeing Air Force MPs carrying .38 special revolvers, also a jet pilot I talked to told me they were trained with Smith & Wesson .38 specials.
Kind regards,
Jani

Edward Tinker · 10-14-2004, 05:51 PM

<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> yes, I was Military Police, so thats why we had them...

Ed

montenegrin · 10-14-2004, 06:03 PM

To conclude the story of "my" Colt Army Special 38, I did not get it eventualy. The auction it was on just finished today. The starting price was 120 euros, I did not bid on it, and it went for 220 euros (about $300 with tax and comission; condition was fine+). Instead, I bid on a Colt SSA 45 Long Colt 71/2" (third generation, circa 1978) in new condition - and got it for 600 euros (about $860 after tax and commision). I consider myself lucky as these are 2,300 euros (almost $2,800!) retail here in Europe. I have been dreaming of a real Colt since I was a boy (and a proud owner of a 1917 DWM Luger P.08) and now that I'm past 50 it's about time I got one...

Edward Tinker · 10-14-2004, 06:36 PM

Congrats! Well, even in the USA a 3rd gen is usually worth $1200-$1500 from what I have seen.

Ed

montenegrin · 10-14-2004, 06:46 PM

Thank you kindly. Now I must contact Mr Buchanan (spelling?) from Montana to get a proper rig for my new baby...
Regards,
Jani

Ron Wood · 10-14-2004, 10:44 PM

Not to belittle Mr. Buchanan's wares, but have you considered an El Paso Saddlery (www.epsaddlery.com) rig for your Colt single-action? Being from El Paso and a single-action fan, I have this urge to put in a plug for an outfit that has been making holsters nearly as long as the old Colt "hog-leg" has been around. I have no affiliation with the company, they don't even know I exist, but I like their products.

BTW, you got a pretty good deal on your Colt...congratulations. Have a great time with it. I really like the .45 Colt for just plain fun shooting.

montenegrin · 10-15-2004, 06:19 AM

Thanks. In fact I am well aware of El Paso Saddlery, as I have their rig for my S&W M629 4". I ordered it a few years ago directly from Texas. The waiting period was about half a year (special order - left hand) but the rig is superb. In fact I cannot decide should I order again from El Paso, or from Old West Reproductions, Inc. (Rick Bachman - correct spelling); I hear superb reviews of both makers. While I'm more than satisfied with my El Paso rig, I'm inclined to try out Mr. Bachman's product too. Not an easy decision to make...

10-08-2004, 05:13 PM	#1
montenegrin User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 18 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Colt Army Special 38 - WHAT .38? Hello all, in a sales catalog I saw a Colt revolver marked COLT ARMY SPECIAL 38, vintage of c.1919, hard rubber grips. Does this inscription on the barrel mean that the caliber is .38 Special, or is it possible that the revolver is chambered for some other .38 caliber, such as 38 Long Colt or .38 S&W? Thank you, montenegrin

10-10-2004, 07:08 PM	#3
Russ User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Reading, PA. Posts: 628 Thanks: 2 Thanked 38 Times in 10 Posts	I had one in 32-20. It was a fun gun to shoot. But the a frend with a luger liked it more than I did. I enjoy the luger more than I did the Colt. Russ __________________ Livin the dream!!!!!!!!!!!

10-14-2004, 11:34 AM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,152 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I may be wrong on this, and anyone with the facts is welcome to chime in and provide better information, but I believe that this model Colt in .38 special was standard Army issue (successor to the Colt Single Action) when the Phillipine Insurrection began. It's poor performance on rebels charged with adrenelin and possible drugs (when used with ammunition of the day) led to the Testing and adoption of the .45 ACP M1911 as a better manstopper... Anyone got any better or documented history on this subject? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-14-2004, 03:11 PM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,152 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	montenegrin, Thanks very much for the updated history lesson... I remembered that the transition from a .38 caliber to .45 ACP took place, but got my details on the model numbers confused... quite a few cobwebs in this old head!... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-14-2004, 05:16 PM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,919 Thanks: 1,998 Thanked 4,511 Times in 2,083 Posts	I don't know about the Colt Army Special 38 as not being USA issue, but I can guarantee that the 38 Special was. We had S&W model 10's and then later Ruger 38's and had them through Vietnam and until the 9mm replaced it. Of course, I am sure you said Colt Army Special 38 for a reason and not just 38 Special... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-10-2004, 03:05 PM	#2
Stevie User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ok. Posts: 212 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I looked that model up in my Gun Traders Guide, and they list it as chambered in .32-20, .38 Special and .41 Colt. Made from 1908-1927. Also says not to use .38 Special high velocity loads (+P). I traded for a 1953 vintage Colt Police Positive Special in .38 special a few weeks ago, and really like it. Its quite a bit smaller gun than an Army special. Stevie.

10-14-2004, 11:23 AM	#4
montenegrin User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 18 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks. The "Blue Book" says, ...38 cal. (various)... so I'm still not sure what cartridge does it take. Where I live only 38 Special is available so any other 38 is out of question for me.

10-14-2004, 03:00 PM	#6
montenegrin User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 18 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	During the Phillipine Insurrection the standard Army issue revolver was Colt M1892 DA in 38 Long Colt, which proved insufficient. Some old 45 SA Colts were issued, and in 1909 Colt New Service 45 DA was adopted as an interrim measure before adopting Colt M1911 Auto 45.

10-14-2004, 03:58 PM	#8
montenegrin User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 18 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	You are very welcome, John. By the way, Colt Army Special 38 was never Army issue in the USA, but saw military service elsewhere, such as in Greece, and even in Austria-Hungary (one of the substitute standard handguns during WW1). Colt Army special transformed to Colt Official Police c.1929. Regards, Jani

10-14-2004, 05:39 PM	#10
montenegrin User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 18 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	To the point. Some 38 special revolvers (I belive S&W) saw limited US service (I think with the Marine Corps) in the early 1900s. It is also well known that Colt made "Commando" version of its Official Police during WWII. In about 1974 I remember seeing Air Force MPs carrying .38 special revolvers, also a jet pilot I talked to told me they were trained with Smith & Wesson .38 specials. Kind regards, Jani

10-14-2004, 05:51 PM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,919 Thanks: 1,998 Thanked 4,511 Times in 2,083 Posts	<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> yes, I was Military Police, so thats why we had them... Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-14-2004, 06:03 PM	#12
montenegrin User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 18 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	To conclude the story of "my" Colt Army Special 38, I did not get it eventualy. The auction it was on just finished today. The starting price was 120 euros, I did not bid on it, and it went for 220 euros (about $300 with tax and comission; condition was fine+). Instead, I bid on a Colt SSA 45 Long Colt 71/2" (third generation, circa 1978) in new condition - and got it for 600 euros (about $860 after tax and commision). I consider myself lucky as these are 2,300 euros (almost $2,800!) retail here in Europe. I have been dreaming of a real Colt since I was a boy (and a proud owner of a 1917 DWM Luger P.08) and now that I'm past 50 it's about time I got one...

10-14-2004, 06:36 PM	#13
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,919 Thanks: 1,998 Thanked 4,511 Times in 2,083 Posts	Congrats! Well, even in the USA a 3rd gen is usually worth $1200-$1500 from what I have seen. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-14-2004, 06:46 PM	#14
montenegrin User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 18 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you kindly. Now I must contact Mr Buchanan (spelling?) from Montana to get a proper rig for my new baby... Regards, Jani

10-14-2004, 10:44 PM	#15
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,995 Thanks: 1,072 Thanked 5,115 Times in 1,682 Posts	Not to belittle Mr. Buchanan's wares, but have you considered an El Paso Saddlery (www.epsaddlery.com) rig for your Colt single-action? Being from El Paso and a single-action fan, I have this urge to put in a plug for an outfit that has been making holsters nearly as long as the old Colt "hog-leg" has been around. I have no affiliation with the company, they don't even know I exist, but I like their products. BTW, you got a pretty good deal on your Colt...congratulations. Have a great time with it. I really like the .45 Colt for just plain fun shooting. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

10-15-2004, 06:19 AM	#16
montenegrin User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 18 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks. In fact I am well aware of El Paso Saddlery, as I have their rig for my S&W M629 4". I ordered it a few years ago directly from Texas. The waiting period was about half a year (special order - left hand) but the rig is superb. In fact I cannot decide should I order again from El Paso, or from Old West Reproductions, Inc. (Rick Bachman - correct spelling); I hear superb reviews of both makers. While I'm more than satisfied with my El Paso rig, I'm inclined to try out Mr. Bachman's product too. Not an easy decision to make...