Borchardt captured in Iraq

[Doug G.]

All I can say is WOW! You just never know what will show up in a war zone! I hope they find a way to keep this one from being destroyed!

[Ron Wood]

That is amazing! How in the world did you find out about that? I don't suppose there is any way of finding out the serial number? It is almost a sure thing that I don't have it on my Borchardt serial number list.

[Doug G.]

Ron, found it here.
SUBGUNS

[John Sabato]

Obviously this gun has seen a lot of use... a tribute to the design that it has survived under this heavy use...

[Dwight Gruber]

But how the heck did they manage to feed it???

--Dwight

[Lugerdoc]

Reminds me on the one that I purchased that come back from "Vietnam", although mine had about 95% of the original finish. Actually mine was purchased off the wall of a Bangkock restaurant for $500 Bahn, and I paid the follow who bought it back to US $2500 in the mid 1970s. TH

[Pete Ebbink]

Probably used it as a clubbing weapon...

[Heinz]

Do not underestimate the abilities of some of the Arabian/Iraqi/Iranian/Pakistani blacksmiths and mechanics. I have a dirt cheap folding knife I bought years ago as joke when I was muzzleloading. It is made of laminated steel and takes a razor edge. I have always been amazed for ot cost $1.00. For the Borchardt Someone probably fire formed the cases out of mauser brass and hand loaded. Or maybe a couple of hundred rounds lasted them a very long time. Ask yourself how you would do it and they probably did the same thing but may well be better with hand operated tools than we are.

[Hugh]

I once had a reduced size 32 cal Webley copy that was hand made in Pakistan that was amazing in its workmanship.

[stymie]

Unidentified Weapons in Iraq - Sequel

Posted By: Stan Holland <stan@XXXstanholland.com>
Date: 6/1/06 09:12

There seems to be a lot of interest in the Borchart pistol that was recently discovered here in Iraq. I was able to get back into the armory and I took some more pictures of the Borchart and pictures of some of the other weapons that we are unable to identify. One of the pistols I was able to identify by doing a simple search on the internet and the result was that it is a 1907 Roth-Steyr pistol. The other pistol was made by the E.J. Smith & Co., London and the serial number appears to be 21. The last pistol is still unknown, but most people seem to think that it is a French design. I have included pictures of the weapons in the links below.

If anyone knows what the unidentified weapons are, or if you can provide me with more inforamtion, or if you know someone who might know, could you please let me know how to contact them? Just remove the "XXX" from my email address. Thanks.

Borchart C93 Pistol
I received several requests to post more pictures of this pistol and I tried to get them as detailed as possible. You can see the serial number (picture 5), the top of the pistol with the breech open (pictures 7 & 8), and pictures of the breech operating mechanism from the side which show the markings stamped into the metal (pictures 9 & 10).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4..._C93_Pic_1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4..._C93_Pic_2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4..._C93_Pic_3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4..._C93_Pic_4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4..._C93_Pic_5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4..._C93_Pic_6.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4..._C93_Pic_7.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4..._C93_Pic_8.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4..._C93_Pic_9.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...C93_Pic_10.jpg

[John Sabato]

So where are the photos of the guns you can't identify? I don't see the links or the photos??

[Doug G.]

John, click here>>>>>FOLLOW THIS LINK

[the gunman]

Doug what will be the fate of these weapons.?

[Doug G.]

Their fate is unknown. The soldier that took the pictures has been advised of the rarity of the Borchardt and has been advised to try to get it to a military museum. But some bozo commander may order them all to be run over with a tank?

[shadow]

If anyone on this forum has contacts at a good museum they should make them aware of this find. Mabe the museum curators can apply some pressure at a higher level stateside to have this Borchart placed in a museum.

Chris

[Ron Wood]

Unfortunately, we still do not know the serial number of the Borchardt. The number on the top is the patent number. The serial number is on the bottom of the grip. I can see the numbers "317" on the side of the rear toggle link, so I suspect the serial number is 1317 or 2317. I have not previously recorded either of those numbers, so it would be nice add a new number to the list. I certainly hope the gun is not destroyed.

The â??unknownâ?� revolver is almost certainly a Montenegrin gun in the style of the Model 1870 Gasser revolver made by the firm of Leopold Gasser K.u.K Hof-und Armee-Waffenfabrik of Vienna. King Nicholas of Montenegro (1910-1918) decreed that all male subjects (note: ALL male, not just military!) would be armed with this style revolver. A bazillion of these huge guns were made, many by Gasser but also from a plethora of Belgian gun makers mostly unknown today. They were made in solid and hinged frame designs. Most hinged frame guns were top-break hinged at the bottom. This piece is unusual in that it is top-hinged and has a rather bizarre external cam to eject the spent cartridges. The barrel is almost certainly a later replacement as it is not engraved and has an over large, and probably ineffective, front sight. I would guess that this masterpiece is of Belgian origin.